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Thoughts on 401k and possible recession

Posted on 3/7/19 at 6:00 pm
Posted by pcolatiger28
Pensacola, Fl
Member since Apr 2009
1284 posts
Posted on 3/7/19 at 6:00 pm
I must admit that I'm not very well versed in the stock market, however I do have a general understanding. My confidence in the stock market is low based on our debt level and in my opinion, upon a looming recession. I’m thinking energy, precious metals, and infrastructure are some allocations that would work best for my concerns.

Since I’m limited with the type of funds my company provides, I'm trying to make the best decision with what I have. I'm not asking for trade advice, only your opinion based on my lack of confidence in standard allocations across a 401k, and desire to better protect my money in the event of a recession, but also considering a possible energy boom and rise in precious metals.

Would you guys say if/when a recession hits, a 401k structured in the following way would be safer and hit my concern goals? The below option is one of only a few in my selections. Thanks in advance!

Age 38, assuming retirement at 65, 6% contribution with 75% match

25% Bloomberg Roll Select Commodity IndexSM
25% S&P® Global LargeMidCap Commodity and Resources Index
15% Dow Jones U.S. Select REIT IndexSM
25% Bloomberg Barclays U.S. TIPS Index
10% S&P Global Infrastructure Index

Summary:
25% in commodities
25% in global natural resource stocks,
15% in U.S. Real Estate Investment Trusts (REITs),
25% in U.S. Treasury Inflation Protected Securities(TIPS)
10% S&P Global Infrastructure Index.
This post was edited on 3/7/19 at 6:28 pm
Posted by GeauxTigers777
Member since Oct 2007
1573 posts
Posted on 3/7/19 at 6:19 pm to
Impossible to answer this question without knowing your age, time until retirement, etc. Attempting to time the market almost never works. While precious metals diversifies a portfolio, you are going to lose money if you stay in that long term vs. Low cost mutual funds.

I know no one wants to see their portfolio "lose" money, but as the old addage goes, you never lose until you sell. Chances are that you will exit the market too soon, and you will not re-enter at the true bottom.
Posted by iAmBatman
The Batcave
Member since Mar 2011
12382 posts
Posted on 3/7/19 at 6:29 pm to
quote:

I must admit that I'm not very well versed in the stock market


Don’t try to time the market. People with infinite more resources can’t time the market so you’ve got no shot. Dollar cost average and invest in good and down years. Time in the market wins in the long run.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
41234 posts
Posted on 3/7/19 at 6:41 pm to
Your over a quarter century from retirement, a recession only provides an opportunity to buy at a discount.
Posted by gpburdell
ATL
Member since Jun 2015
1425 posts
Posted on 3/7/19 at 7:32 pm to
Unless you're planning to retire soon, why be worried about a recession. As someone pointed out, it's just paper losses until you actually sell. With 25+ years to retirement you should welcome recessions, crashes etc. Lets you buy more with your money.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone who understands modern portfolio theory recommend staying out of the US stock market all together. Unless you already have several million and not concerned with long term growth.

The "permanent portfolio" is something that comes to mind when I was reading this. https://www.bogleheads.org/blog/harry-brownes-permanent-portfolio/

I'd be pretty confident the below would beat out what you propose over the next 25 years with less volatility
50% Total US Stock Market
50% Total US Bond Market

Take a look at this. I think it will help.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/

Unless you plan to change your investing strategy, market time, etc whenever you think you know better than everyone else. Good luck with that..

Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89618 posts
Posted on 3/9/19 at 10:59 am to
I understand that your tolerance for risk is obviously not nearly as high as mine.

However, for any period for a long, long time (like a century or more), holding equities - specifically buying the broad U.S. market, simply outperforms any such hedge strategy over any extended period, except in very narrow, short-term scenarios with perfect retroactive knowledge.

So, I would be (and am) largely in S&P 500 funds and continue to buy them until you're 5 to 7 years from retirement, then determine if you're going to start phasing out and locking in profits.
Posted by CivilTiger83
Member since Dec 2017
2525 posts
Posted on 3/10/19 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

Don’t try to time the market. People with infinite more resources can’t time the market so you’ve got no shot. Dollar cost average and invest in good and down years. Time in the market wins in the long run.


This.

If you are worried about the market tanking, add some bonds to your portfolio. There is no free lunch.
Posted by bogart
Member since Dec 2013
1204 posts
Posted on 3/10/19 at 4:30 pm to
How will you know when a recession starts? How will you know when it ends? If you are worried why not put something like 50% of new contributions into cash. If we have a big pullback then buy more with the cash.
Posted by HotBoudin
Metry
Member since Sep 2003
883 posts
Posted on 3/10/19 at 4:40 pm to
I was able to retire a few years ago at 62. Worked my entire career for two major corps with good 401k's. The only time I intervened was in 2008; after the crash I went 100% stocks & stock funds and maxed the percentages. After everything recovered, I slowly moved to the recommended splits. That set me up for life.

Lesson = buy low and sell high.
Posted by Doctor Strangelove
Member since Feb 2018
2964 posts
Posted on 3/11/19 at 2:49 am to
Where is your money now? Which funds specifically?
Posted by bayoubullish
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2018
24 posts
Posted on 3/14/19 at 7:09 pm to
This is a great post and I know others are feeling the same way. A few things to reference from this point forward:
1. You've acknowledged you're not well versed in the market. Remember that before making assumptions.

2. You're confidence, feelings, optimism of an energy boom are all SUBJECTIVE. While the market may be SUBJECTIVE over the short term, it is OBJECTIVE over the long term. It does not care about our feelings. Remember that even the experts fall short when they invest based on feeling.

3. Do not make short term decisions (1-5 years) with long term capital(5+ years, in your case, 27 years). Hope is not a strategy.

4. Recall your time until the funds are needed. 27 years. A downturn would largely be a buying opportunity for you.

5. If you don't know the future, diversify. That means own a mix of large, mid, and small cap US and international stocks, high quality government and corporate bonds, and a little extra in cash.

6. As the economy slows, it will then contract, and we will enter a recession. Do not try to predict when. Every possible data point proves this to be detrimental to your goals.

7. The portfolio mentioned would be the exact opposite of what you'd want if you're worried about a recession. You are gambling heavily.
Google any investment jelly bean chart.

8. All that being said, the best plan is one you can stick with. For example, If 60% stock, 35% bond, 5% cash helps you sleep at night, then that is how you should remain invested. I highly recommend consulting your financial advisor.
Having said that, Props to the guy that recommended Ben Carlson's blog, the absolute BEST thing you can do is follow the team at Ritholtz Wealth management. They have videos and blogs that bring truth to this industry and answers to all your questions. (I'm thinking about going to work for them).

I really hope this was helpful, I've seen the good, bad, and the ugly, and have run data on every reasonable possible outcome, I really hope you don't let emotion blow up your plan.
Posted by bayoubullish
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2018
24 posts
Posted on 3/14/19 at 7:10 pm to
That kind of intestinal fortitude cannot be taught, HotBoudin, props.
Posted by bayoubullish
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2018
24 posts
Posted on 3/14/19 at 7:18 pm to
Major props on the Ben Carlson link- Ritholtz is the TRUTH.
Posted by bayoubullish
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2018
24 posts
Posted on 3/14/19 at 7:29 pm to
LINK /

There you go. Over 20 year rolling periods from 1872-2018, the stock market delivered returns that varied from +0.5%-+13.2%. As in you did not have a loss over a 20 year holding period. Over 146 years.

Facts > Fear
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