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Bruce Feldman made a small comparison between Dabo and Orgeron I thought was interesting
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:37 pm
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:37 pm
On the Dual Threat podcast Russillo does. Really good, should check it out.
They were talking about how Clemson has built this machine that isn't scared of Bama like most schools are, and mentioned how Dabo, like Orgeron, is a high energy recruiting machine and personable guy that the players always love.
Then went on about Swinney's beginning, taking over for a fired coach, then made head coach, everyone laughed at the walk on receiver from Alabama now a head coach, and after year three, going 6-7 and losing their bowl game, there were a lot of people ready to run him out of town. But the Clemson admins showed faith in him and stuck it out. Swinney also went through a lot of coordinators before finding the right people, lucking out on Venables with Stoops bringing in his brother at OU.
Feldman also mentioned that when you talk to players who go to Clemson and ask them what drew them there, it's always the same two things: the culture of Clemson, and Dabo.
Probably foolish to be hopeful that the situation with Ed could be a one-to-one comparison, but the similarities are interesting. Ed is definitely still trying to create his own identity with this team, and he has doubled down on the LSU culture with these kids, and they are ready to run through a wall for him. I know the running line is, and I've said this, that if Ed needs to bring in other people to cover up his flaws and pretty much run the team for him, what's the point? But Dabo had to do the same thing. Feldman said that the head coaches job every week is to get everyone, players AND coaches, to the best possible position to be able to succeed. That's role #1 for a head coach. Not necessarily being an X's and O's guy.
I don't know. I'm hopeful. I still feel Ensminger needs to move back to tight ends and we need another modern mind directing this offense, but considering that Devin White is even CONSIDERING coming back for his senior year for a potential title run makes me feel good about the atmosphere surrounding this team.
Anyways, happy Friday.
They were talking about how Clemson has built this machine that isn't scared of Bama like most schools are, and mentioned how Dabo, like Orgeron, is a high energy recruiting machine and personable guy that the players always love.
Then went on about Swinney's beginning, taking over for a fired coach, then made head coach, everyone laughed at the walk on receiver from Alabama now a head coach, and after year three, going 6-7 and losing their bowl game, there were a lot of people ready to run him out of town. But the Clemson admins showed faith in him and stuck it out. Swinney also went through a lot of coordinators before finding the right people, lucking out on Venables with Stoops bringing in his brother at OU.
Feldman also mentioned that when you talk to players who go to Clemson and ask them what drew them there, it's always the same two things: the culture of Clemson, and Dabo.
Probably foolish to be hopeful that the situation with Ed could be a one-to-one comparison, but the similarities are interesting. Ed is definitely still trying to create his own identity with this team, and he has doubled down on the LSU culture with these kids, and they are ready to run through a wall for him. I know the running line is, and I've said this, that if Ed needs to bring in other people to cover up his flaws and pretty much run the team for him, what's the point? But Dabo had to do the same thing. Feldman said that the head coaches job every week is to get everyone, players AND coaches, to the best possible position to be able to succeed. That's role #1 for a head coach. Not necessarily being an X's and O's guy.
I don't know. I'm hopeful. I still feel Ensminger needs to move back to tight ends and we need another modern mind directing this offense, but considering that Devin White is even CONSIDERING coming back for his senior year for a potential title run makes me feel good about the atmosphere surrounding this team.
Anyways, happy Friday.
20
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:42 pm to sicboy
Impossible. Orgeron will never win anything and will fail. Everyone thinks so.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:42 pm to sicboy
Thanks for posting a very good read. Good luck trying to sway some LSU fans into buying into the stability and continuity of a program. I do see the similarities with the family atmosphere and players willing to do anything for their coach. I hope it gets enough time to get the program as he envisions it.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:43 pm to sicboy
Would be a great story. I like the direction of the program right now. Hopefully Eaux makes a great hire to replace Sullivan
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:43 pm to sicboy
I've always considered Dabo at Clemson as the best case scenario for Orgeron. Worst case being something like Ron Zook at Florida. It will probably end up being somewhere in the middle.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:46 pm to sicboy
The difference is the hiring of assistants, specifically offensive coordinator. Orgeron only hires coaches that he has worked with in the past. The only time Orgeron has gone outside of his comfort zone was Canada, and we all know how that relationship panned out.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:48 pm to TheSHU
I said this earlier this year, if Ed wants any longevity with LSU, he's going to have to learn that's not sustainable. Sean Payton finally let go of his friends he had held on to for years, and it's paying dividends.
And like I pointed out, Dabo went through a lot of coordinators as well before he found what worked. And they are people that want to stay there. Venables should be a HC somewhere.
And like I pointed out, Dabo went through a lot of coordinators as well before he found what worked. And they are people that want to stay there. Venables should be a HC somewhere.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:50 pm to sicboy
quote:
is a high energy recruiting machine and personable guy that the players always love
Miles fit this description as well.
There are two key differences between Dabo and Miles/Orgeron -
1. Changing coaches/systems to continually be the best. Dabo will go out and find coaches to help the program win, not to provide himself with a personal sense of comfort. I guarantee you that it Clemson finished in the bottom half of offensive production in a given year, then Dabo would make a change. As would Saban and most other top level coaches. Not at LSU, though.
2. Getting elite QBs. Watson was elite. When he left, Dabo realized what was required to make another run, so he went out and got the best QB in the country.
This post was edited on 1/11/19 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:54 pm to sicboy
One big difference is the expectation level at the beginning of their tenure.
LSU fans expect to return to being elite.
Clemson, at the time Dabo took over, had never been elite. He has certainly brought them to elite status, but that’s a level their program had never achieved previously.
Not to mention LSU has to play Bama in the regular season every year, whereas Clemson doesn’t have to until the playoff. If that were not the case, LSU would have made the championship game and playoffs many years and Miles would still be the head coach.
LSU fans expect to return to being elite.
Clemson, at the time Dabo took over, had never been elite. He has certainly brought them to elite status, but that’s a level their program had never achieved previously.
Not to mention LSU has to play Bama in the regular season every year, whereas Clemson doesn’t have to until the playoff. If that were not the case, LSU would have made the championship game and playoffs many years and Miles would still be the head coach.
This post was edited on 1/11/19 at 5:55 pm
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:54 pm to Cs
quote:
I guarantee you that it Clemson finished in the bottom half of offensive production in a given year, then Dabo would make a change. As would Saban and most other top level coaches. Not at LSU, though.
Like I said, Orgeron is going to have to realize this if he wants to stick it out.
This isn't a "Orgeron is the next Swinney" thread. But the pieces are in place for Orgeron to succeed, as long as he lets go of his stubbornness.
quote:
When he left, Dabo realized what was required to make another run, so he went out and got the best QB in the country.
I think Ed has the pulse of what the team needs. He likes to call it out publicly, even. Needed a elite kicker, went out and got Cole, and we have the best high school kicker coming in. We suffered not having studs in the backfield, signed 2 of the top 10 RB's in the country.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:55 pm to JPLSU1981
quote:
Not to mention LSU has to play Bama in the regular season every year, whereas Clemson doesn’t have to until the playoff.
That's another big point I meant to put in the OP, and unfortunately as long as Saban is still around, that will continue to be an uphill battle that every season is judged around.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:56 pm to sicboy
O plays a bit too scared against Alabama, unlike Clemson.
I mean at least way too conservative. He also does this against Florida, but he didn't against UGA.
I wish we could see more UGA LSU.
I mean at least way too conservative. He also does this against Florida, but he didn't against UGA.
I wish we could see more UGA LSU.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 5:59 pm to sicboy
The rant says you cannot compare the coaches no matter how rational the comparison might be because O sucked at ole miss.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 6:04 pm to sicboy
I agree with that statement. I think O is like Dabo and can be even more like Dabo at some point. I would love to see nothing more than O being successful because it would mean LSU is successful, but not only that, he wants to win and wants nothing more than for LSU to win. He loves LSU and for that I’m grateful we have him as our coach
Posted on 1/11/19 at 6:07 pm to TheSHU
quote:
Orgeron only hires coaches that he has worked with in the past. The only time Orgeron has gone outside of his comfort zone was Canada, and we all know how that relationship panned out.
Orgeron is provincial and insular like most coonasses. Let's hope he sees the light and hires a creative, progressive offensive coordinator soon.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 6:17 pm to sicboy
Remember in the water boy, where all the other teams started putting their water boys and towels boys in the game with disastrous results?
Just cause something works at one place, with one person, doesn’t mean it will somewhere else.
With all that said, if O commits to building an offense that can put up numbers, not even a high power offense necessarily, but efficient, especially when facing similar talent, then he can be successful and reach the CFP. It’s not gonna happen otherwise. I hope he does. I like the guy.
Just cause something works at one place, with one person, doesn’t mean it will somewhere else.
With all that said, if O commits to building an offense that can put up numbers, not even a high power offense necessarily, but efficient, especially when facing similar talent, then he can be successful and reach the CFP. It’s not gonna happen otherwise. I hope he does. I like the guy.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 6:35 pm to OceanMan
quote:
The rant says you cannot compare the coaches no matter how rational the comparison might be because O sucked at ole miss.
In all fairness, all we had to go on with O was Ole Miss. He's a career position coach outside of Ole Miss. LOTS of people were pissed/underwhelmed with the hire, and rightfully so. Dabo didn't have much of a record when Clemson hired him. O had a disaster.
He has surprised me though and I've thought (especially this year) that O is looking to build something kind of like what Dabo has. Make it less "business decision" and more about team and family. The culture has obviously worked for Dabo and I feel like it worked for a bit with Les as well.
He still has work to do but I think it is unfair to say that O has flat out sucked. He has exceeded expectations IMO.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 6:36 pm to sicboy
We ALL owe Dabo a debt of gratitude for crushing the "nice guys finish last" false narrative so carefully crafted by Emperor Nick and his sycophantic army.
Posted on 1/11/19 at 7:05 pm to des4271
Orgeron has to learn how to hire an innovative OC and let him coach. Handcuffing is what cost Les his job.
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