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re: Hypocrisy of those who denigrate Dale Brown's accomplishments
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:09 pm to tigersbb
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:09 pm to tigersbb
Dale Brown stayed 4 or 5 years too long and that tarnished his legacy. Him pushing for Johnny as HC as hard as he did also tarnished his legacy. He can have something named after him, be he'll never deserve a statue.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:15 pm to Lakebound
quote:
A reference to the assistant coach's "lost money"
That baw was just out paying bills when he had to make an emergency recruiting trip. We've all been there. Can't understand why that would raise suspicion at all.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:23 pm to tigersbb
Dale Brown, much like Collis Temple, were great while they were doing their thing at LSU. No one can deny the energy, talent, and exposure Brown brought to LSU. Even with the probation and sanctions at the end of his run as head coach, I don't think many would've felt ill will toward Dale. He is a good person.
Just like Temple, though, he chose to feel that he was bigger than the program and insist and influence LSU to take on not only a center piece to his controversy at the close of his time at LSU, but an under-qualified candidate that had no business being hired at LSU. In the end, it not only hurt the program, but has sent it to a point where the fan base has never been so unenthusiastic.
No matter what great things you've done as a person or in your job, it only takes one royal screw up or bad judgment/action to destroy all of that in how you are perceived.
Just like Temple, though, he chose to feel that he was bigger than the program and insist and influence LSU to take on not only a center piece to his controversy at the close of his time at LSU, but an under-qualified candidate that had no business being hired at LSU. In the end, it not only hurt the program, but has sent it to a point where the fan base has never been so unenthusiastic.
No matter what great things you've done as a person or in your job, it only takes one royal screw up or bad judgment/action to destroy all of that in how you are perceived.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:32 pm to RedTigerRulz
While blowing that 31 point lead in one half was horrible, to me, there was one other game that Brown lost that is almost as bad if not worse. Playing Dominique Wilkins-led UGA, at the PMAC, LSU had a one point lead, had the ball under UGA's basket, with ONE second left. LSU player, not knowing the rule, threw the ball out of bounds at half court, thinking the clock would start, it did not. UGA got the ball back, quick pass to DW, who caught & shot in one motion at the free throw line, swish, UGA won. I am not saying DB was a horrible, worst ever coach at LSU. I am saying that there are valid reasons for disliking him, too. Give him all the credit for building LSU up but, too, he gets all the credit for running it into the floor.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:37 pm to Skillet
quote:
Dale Brown stayed 4 or 5 years too long and that tarnished his legacy. Him pushing for Johnny as HC as hard as he did also tarnished his legacy.
That is ludicrous to think a person should be judged by their worst four years while virtually ignoring an incredible run over 17 years.
At worst Brown maybe stayed two years longer than he should have . The 1994 and 1995 seasons would have been a whole lot different with a healthy Randy Livingston.
Then the Lester Earl departure following the Hawaii tournament was probably the final straw.
As for Johnny Jones, Dale did not force anyone to hire him even if he advocated for it. Again, you lack perspective, it was not a terrible hire and there was some level of success. It just did not turn out as well as we hoped. T
Based upon the results of the 20 years since Brown retired most LSU fans would be very pleased to have the next 20 seasons match what Brown accomplished from 1976 to 1996.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:37 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
No matter what great things you've done as a person or in your job, it only takes one royal screw up or bad judgment/action to destroy all of that in how you are perceived.
To be fair, our program seemed dead after the Trent Johnson era and he had no ties to Dale Brown. Trent had consecutive few 11-20 seasons before his last disappointing year.
And the bottom line is that the AD makes the hire. As an AD, if you let people make a decision for you, then it's your fault, because no one else makes the decision in the end, With the Wade hire, the fan base seems very excited again even after the awful season the team had this year.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 2:56 pm to tigersbb
quote:
it was not a terrible hire and there was some level of success.
Hiring a guy who never won the fricking sunbelt in 11 fricking tries and needlessly doubling his salary was a terrible hire. Sorry, no other way to slice it. A cautionary tale about why you shouldn't hire those who are unqualified by accomplishment because they are "one of us" or whatever bullshite you want to say.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 3:08 pm to tigersbb
quote:
As for Johnny Jones, Dale did not force anyone to hire him even if he advocated for it. Again, you lack perspective, it was not a terrible hire and there was some level of success. It just did not turn out as well as we hoped. T
To some extent, yes. However, to me this is where Alleva deserves a ton of criticism. After the '15-16 failure it was abundantly clear Jones couldn't get LSU to a championship level program (or even just a consistent tournament program).
THAT was the time to make a move. Who knows, with a new coach maybe Quarterman stays for his Sr. year; Maybe Victor gets his shite together. You give the new coach a chance to start with a decent roster and recruiting hopefully doesn't take a dip. Instead, Alleva retains Jones to be the coach of a group that had already quit on him the year before. He comes into the season as a de facto lame duck and everyone knows it. This year's disaster didn't have to happen. But Joe didn't have the foresight to make a move and at least build from the good Jones brought to the program. Now Wade has to rebuild the program culture from the ground up.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 3:36 pm to Alt26
Trent resigned after the NCAA tourney so the choices were all relative to Jones. It was not a disastrous hire but overall success eluded him. If you were objective the Jones Era was a C to C+. He was 42-30 SEC his first four years and finished in the upper half of hte league, as high as 3rd and 5th so not all bad.
This post was edited on 3/23/17 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 3/23/17 at 3:40 pm to Alt26
quote:
THAT was the time to make a move. Who knows, with a new coach maybe Quarterman stays for his Sr. year; Maybe Victor gets his shite together.
Timing is everything. Alleva could not predict Qaurterman would declare for the draft and Victor would be suspended. With those two this would have been about 20-10 team with 8 to 10 SEC wins.
Who knows , if Wade is the home run we all hope he is then the old adage " good things come to those who wait" may never be more true. I think we got a good one, time will tell.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 3:50 pm to tigersbb
"I was worried about losing until I looked down the floor and saw Dale Brown. Then I knew we had a chance."
-Bobby Knight commenting on that stormy 1987 game with LSU
This about sums up my opinion of Dale Brown.
-Bobby Knight commenting on that stormy 1987 game with LSU
This about sums up my opinion of Dale Brown.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 4:21 pm to tigersbb
My pretend vote is "Yea" we should rename the court but it's nothing I'd argue in circles about. If the masses vote "Nay," m'eh.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 4:26 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:
Playing Dominique Wilkins-led UGA, at the PMAC, LSU had a one point lead, had the ball under UGA's basket, with ONE second left. LSU player, not knowing the rule, threw the ball out of bounds at half court, thinking the clock would start, it did not. UGA got the ball back, quick pass to DW, who caught & shot in one motion at the free throw line, swish, UGA won
Wilkins had left 3 years earlier. Somehow,someway with Dale Brown at the helm that team still won the SEC.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 4:48 pm to Keltic Tiger
You got the game stuff right except Dominique Wilkins was playing in the NBA at the time. I was at the game and John Williams by the way one of the greatest players ever to play at LSU threw it in.Dumb mistake but I think Big John more than made up for it the next year in the 86 tournament run.
Dale lost some games he should have won but he also beat a hell of a lot of more talented teams as well. As far as Bobby Knights comment A. Bobby should have already been thrown out of the game and B. Bobby had a way more talented team than Dale that night and Dale had him on the ropes right to the buzzer so who outcoached whom?
Dale lost some games he should have won but he also beat a hell of a lot of more talented teams as well. As far as Bobby Knights comment A. Bobby should have already been thrown out of the game and B. Bobby had a way more talented team than Dale that night and Dale had him on the ropes right to the buzzer so who outcoached whom?
This post was edited on 3/23/17 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 3/23/17 at 9:42 pm to ballscaster
quote:
My pretend vote is "Yea" we should rename the court but it's nothing I'd argue in circles about. If the masses vote "Nay," m'eh.
I would definitely not lose sleep if we don't. Not a wink.
Posted on 3/23/17 at 9:58 pm to Rudy40
quote:
You got the game stuff right except Dominique Wilkins was playing in the NBA at the time. I was at the game and John Williams by the way one of the greatest players ever to play at LSU threw it in.Dumb mistake but I think Big John more than made up for it the next year in the 86 tournament run.
Right...it was Cedric Henderson. I was there as well. Williams could have literally tossed it to a Georgia player and we'd have likely still won. When someone ever says "LSU has this wrapped up" in a close game, no matter what the sport, I always come back with "I remember this one time back in 85 with one second left...."
Posted on 3/23/17 at 11:53 pm to tigersbb
quote:
That is ludicrous to think a person should be judged by their worst four years while virtually ignoring an incredible run over 17 years.
I started LSU in 93. My first 4 years (I took the long route) Dale Brown was the coach. We sucked every year. 4 straight years either last place or next to last in the conference. I love basketball, but wasn't a fan of the school until I started going there. So none of that earlier history really means that much to me. I just remember that we sucked and he was pretty much the cause of it all. You can't blame the younger generations for not worshiping him or paying homage like people who experienced those times do..
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:03 am to tigersbb
LSU was abysmal and no one ever cared about basketball at LSU other than Pistol before Dale Brown. If you hope or expect LSU to be good in basketball, it's because of Dale Brown, even if you don't know it.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:18 am to tigersbb
Dale was hired my freshman year at LSU. Students got into the games free, and the student section was still mostly empty. It was much like baseball. Absolutely no one went to baseball games before Bertman. I mean NO ONE. Basketball was the same before Dale. Taking a nothing program to a final four? LSU was a pure wasteland of basketball before Dale.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:47 am to brmark70816
quote:
I started LSU in 93. My first 4 years (I took the long route) Dale Brown was the coach. We sucked every year. 4 straight years either last place or next to last in the conference. I love basketball, but wasn't a fan of the school until I started going there. So none of that earlier history really means that much to me. I just remember that we sucked and he was pretty much the cause of it all. You can't blame the younger generations for not worshiping him or paying homage like people who experienced those times do.
In the five years before you graced LSU with your attendance LSU basketball featured Chris Jackson and Shaquille Oneal, two of the greatest college basketball players to ever play the game along with other outstanding players. Yet, this did not even draw passing interest from you?
As for your student years it might be helpful to keep things in perspective. Yes the program declined, but you cannot lay all the blame on Dale Brown. Dale signed the number one recruit in the country, Randy Livingston in 1993. That summer Livingston sustained a devestating knee injury and was never really the same again. When he was able to play Liivngston was at about 75% of his true ability and was still the best player on the court. Unfortunately, injuries continued to derail his seasons at LSU and the program began to slide.
Then Brown signed top ten recruit Lester Earl and top 30 teammate Cory Powell from Glen Oaks . In what should have been an NCAA violation Roy Williams recruited Lester during a holiday tournament the two teams played in and he transferred in mid season. Powell was unable to qualify academically. A healthy Livingston and a more grounded Earl would have totally altered the records of Brown's last four years.
We all begin to follow sports or certain schools or teams at different ages, but it does not take a lot of effort to develop some historical perspective and appreciate the past accomplishments of coaches and players. When Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's home run record we did not have to have seen Ruth play in person to know he must have been a great player.
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