re: Trump is getting absolutely dragged by the bipartisan Intel CMTE

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I've seen them saying that on top of that, the argument is that Trump actually knowingly colluded with them in doing so. I hadn't seen that claim made in anything but strawman form, either.

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Who? Can you link? If anyone says this they are delusional. But, as I said other than some very whacky people and radical left sites I haven't seen any credible journalist report it. And to reiterate, I have read CNN, Post and Times state the complete opposite.

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Who? Can you link?

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I don't mean that lefties are alleging it seriously, I mean I've seen strawmanning Trumpkins using it to deflect from Trump's evidence-free accusation against Obama.

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I don't mean that lefties are alleging it seriously, I mean I've seen strawmanning Trumpkins using it to deflect from Trump's evidence-free accusation against Obama.

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Okay. Agreed. It is very difficult to have a conversation with out deflection onto something about Obama or Clinton.

For some reason there are some people who think that when you criticize Trump that means you also think Dems are perfect and that Clinton/Obama are infallible.

I have never voted for a Democratic Presidential candidate but I'm a liberal nut on here.

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I have never voted for a Democratic Presidential candidate but I'm a liberal nut on here.

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sounds like something a uniparty globo-cuck would say

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Are you denying that democrats peddled the bull shite that russia hacked voting machines in the swing states .

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I don't remember any prominent democrats suggesting that actual machines were hacked . Maybe there were some but not many.

I'm sure there were hundreds of Breitbart articles on it though- citing every loony tune in the country.

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WE HAD RECOUNTS BECAUSE OF THE CRYING. did you forget that?

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Norm Coleman was a little bitch, I'll grant you that.

Schiff is a hack for the Far Left and Nunes is dubious...

Here's my run down:
1. Evidence that Trump or his campaign colluded with the Russians to ‘influence’ the election: 0
But the Far Left will continue to beat that horse long after the decayed carcass has lost its foul smell.
2. Evidence that the Russians ‘hacked’ something, like the DNC’s server: Significant (unless the ‘Umbrage Theory’ is made manifest)
The Far Left will conflate this with the larger conspiracy theory called ‘it’ as in: ‘We know the Russians did it and what we are concerned about is whether they colluded with any Americans, especially those in the Trump campaign, to do it. (it has variable meaning but is most often defined in vague terms of ‘collusion’ with the Russians -see #1)
3. Evidence that Obama ordered a wiretap of Trump tower and the Trump campaign: Likely 0 – due mainly to procedural barriers meant to route such administration through the DOJ or NSA.
The Far Left is happy to parse a Trump tweet literally and shout from the hilltops that Trump was ‘lying’ or, at the very least, very wrong.
4. Evidence that incidental collection of Trump campaign communications occurred through FISA authorized surveillance, that these communications were leaked, and that unmasking of Americans' names occurred (leaking and unmasking are strictly illegal): High Probability
The Far Left will continue to caterwaul about the “wire tapping”, though, to distract from #4 because #4 is every bit as bad as #3, with only the saving grace (from the Far Left’s perspective) that Obama probably can’t be directly linked to the incidental collection outcomes.

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Knight of Old

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pretty good rundown, but I think "evidence that Trump Tower was systematically wiretapped or monitored in any traditional sense of the use of those terms" should be added.

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Are you denying that democrats peddled the bullshite that russia hacked voting machines in the swing states .

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heard a little bit of that, but it wasn't near as loud as the proclamations of Soros owned voting machines pre-rigged to deliver the election to Hillary...

Ironic thing is that we know, were exposed to and now expect Trumps Twitter conduct and we still voted for him. It is only you guys across the tracks that are out of power that have a problem with it.

Sure, some of the weaker, more PC Trump supporters don't like him on Twitter, but in this day and age with the forces he is fighting, it is a necessary weapon in the war against the MSM/DNC machine.

As for accusing Obama and providing an apology, from our side of it the truth is that most folks don't care. I never liked Obama or his policies and he was pretty vindictive in what he used some of the government to do on his behalf, e.g., James Rosen, IRS Tea Party.

Obama may not have "ordered" a "wiretap" of Trump, but don't be naive enough to think that your guy wasn't aware of other surveillance avenues available to get at Trump.