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Why can't people understand that socialized medicine will ultimately fail?
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:14 am
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:14 am
Supposedly educated lefties and Bernie holdovers just can't seem to get it through their feeble brains that if it can't work in places like the UK with 1/6 our population, it will be an unmitigated disaster here.
What we have now and will ultimately have with Obamacare lite is a modified VA healthcare system for everyone. As a veteran, I appreciate the benefits I get, but (largely through no fault of their own) the VA simply cannot provide adequate healthcare solutions to all of its veterans and their families. This is what we are essentially going to have with the dumbed down ACA. And meanwhile, in Britain where they essentially do have that already, here is the status of their failing service . . .
LINK
What we have now and will ultimately have with Obamacare lite is a modified VA healthcare system for everyone. As a veteran, I appreciate the benefits I get, but (largely through no fault of their own) the VA simply cannot provide adequate healthcare solutions to all of its veterans and their families. This is what we are essentially going to have with the dumbed down ACA. And meanwhile, in Britain where they essentially do have that already, here is the status of their failing service . . .
quote:
BRITISH SOCIALIZED HEALTH SYSTEM IN “DIRE STATE,” WORST WAIT TIMES ON RECORD
quote:
U.K. health secretary Jeremy Hunt has admitted that the NHS is in a dire state and failed to meet its targets of Accident & Emergency waiting times in January – making it the worst month ever on record. The stark admission came during a press conference held by Think Tank Reform on NHS performance. But as feared the national health care system is not up to speed as only 85.1 per cent of patients in accident and emergency were treated within four hours in January -the worst figures ever, records show. And, 86.2 per cent of patients were treated within four hours in December. It is ranked as the worst performance since monthly reporting began in 2010.
LINK
21
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:15 am to PoundFoolish
infowars
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:15 am to PoundFoolish
Because they are not driven by logic and facts. They are driven by emotion.
/thread
/thread
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:20 am to PoundFoolish
quote:Because they are told how wonderful other systems are, and they believe what they are told.
Why can't people understand that socialized medicine will ultimately fail?
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:21 am to PoundFoolish
lol infowars dot com
they're turning the frogs gay!!!
they're turning the frogs gay!!!
This post was edited on 3/10/17 at 8:21 am
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:36 am to PoundFoolish
Somebody will have to step up and point out that if responsible and productive people who can afford to purchase their healthcare can be forced by a (supposed) moral, Socialist impetus to pay/subsidize the healthcare of (many times) individuals who act irresponsibly...that such is essentially unjust and immoral. Not to mention impractical and societally suicidal. Subsidizing immorality - good intentions nws - won't fly. For long.
The only way this works if that if the irresponsible and powerless folk are REQUIRED to meet at the least minimal standards of conduct. If the powerless - through their elected Representative - can assert a moral RIGHT to healthcare...then the responsible and productive folk can assert a moral impetus for those demanding subsidization to step up and help pull the economic/moral society wagon.
Barring that, the implied social contract goes to hell and it all comes tumbling down. And the weak die off and we start over again.
The only way this works if that if the irresponsible and powerless folk are REQUIRED to meet at the least minimal standards of conduct. If the powerless - through their elected Representative - can assert a moral RIGHT to healthcare...then the responsible and productive folk can assert a moral impetus for those demanding subsidization to step up and help pull the economic/moral society wagon.
Barring that, the implied social contract goes to hell and it all comes tumbling down. And the weak die off and we start over again.
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:49 am to PoundFoolish
quote:
The NHS has been declared the best healthcare system by an international panel of experts who rated its care superior to countries which spend far more on health.
The same study also castigated healthcare provision in the US as the worst of the 11 countries it looked at. Despite putting the most money into health, America denies care to many patients in need because they do not have health insurance and is also the poorest at saving the lives of people who fall ill, it found.
The report has been produced by the Commonwealth Fund, a Washington-based foundation which is respected around the world for its analysis of the performance of different countries' health systems. It examined an array of evidence about performance in 11 countries, including detailed data from patients, doctors and the World Health Organisation.
"The United Kingdom ranks first overall, scoring highest on quality, access and efficiency," the fund's researchers conclude in their 30-page report. Their findings amount to a huge endorsement of the health service, especially as it spends the second-lowest amount on healthcare among the 11 – just £2,008 per head, less than half the £5,017 in the US. Only New Zealand, with £1,876, spent less.
In the Commonwealth Fund study the UK came first out of the 11 countries in eight of the 11 measures of care the authors looked at. It got top place on measures including providing effective care, safe care, co-ordinated care and patient-centred care. The fund also rated the NHS as the best for giving access to care and for efficient use of resources.
LINK
Posted on 3/10/17 at 8:55 am to PoundFoolish
Interesting. The World Health Organization ranks the UK at 18 while the US is at 37. We also spend the most per capita.
Posted on 3/10/17 at 9:17 am to PoundFoolish
quote:
Why can't people understand that socialized medicine will ultimately fail?
You mean like in Denmark and France and Spain and England?
Posted on 3/10/17 at 9:34 am to PoundFoolish
Do you really believe that people with life-threatening situations are waiting 4 hours in U.K. emergency rooms?
I'm not advocating for one system or another, but I have plenty of experience with the U.K. system. You aren't going to wait long if you get shot or get in a car wreck.
I'm not advocating for one system or another, but I have plenty of experience with the U.K. system. You aren't going to wait long if you get shot or get in a car wreck.
Posted on 3/10/17 at 10:04 am to PoundFoolish
I tend to agree with you on socialized medicine. The British system is really bad. But, in the future get you info from someone not named Alex Jones
Posted on 3/10/17 at 10:08 am to PoundFoolish
fake news
commies, winning
commies, winning
Posted on 3/10/17 at 11:31 am to PoundFoolish
The reason they don't understand it will fail is because they don't understand the advantages of NOT having one. This is why they errantly cite the "civilized world" when justifying them. A few points that they'll deny but are factually unassailable.
1)More than 3/4ths of all new medical treatments come out of the U.S. This is not an accident. A lot of the shite that people in those other nations get for "free" wouldn't even exist to be given were it not for us. Liberals think that this is just some quirk that can easily be replaced. They haven't the slightest idea why they're wrong.
2)If you define "we all get access" to a product as "success", then THAT is an easy concept to achieve. But that isn't the actual question. Here's reality. If the U.S. had gone full Sweden in 1950, yes, we would all have access like the Swedes. BUT.......and this is the biggie. We'd have access to a lot less stuff. I often say, "if you want the U.S. to go this route in 2017, I hope you REALLY like your 2017 health care because that's what you'll get in 2050 also".
3)Ever last place socialized medicine is occurring is failing. Every last one. But, people use stupid measures to assess them which, then allows them to be called a success.
Hell, most of those places would go bankrupt in about 5 minutes if the U.S. committed just ONE act. If the U.S. completely pulled out of agreements to protect those places, they'd all be fricked.
1)More than 3/4ths of all new medical treatments come out of the U.S. This is not an accident. A lot of the shite that people in those other nations get for "free" wouldn't even exist to be given were it not for us. Liberals think that this is just some quirk that can easily be replaced. They haven't the slightest idea why they're wrong.
2)If you define "we all get access" to a product as "success", then THAT is an easy concept to achieve. But that isn't the actual question. Here's reality. If the U.S. had gone full Sweden in 1950, yes, we would all have access like the Swedes. BUT.......and this is the biggie. We'd have access to a lot less stuff. I often say, "if you want the U.S. to go this route in 2017, I hope you REALLY like your 2017 health care because that's what you'll get in 2050 also".
3)Ever last place socialized medicine is occurring is failing. Every last one. But, people use stupid measures to assess them which, then allows them to be called a success.
Hell, most of those places would go bankrupt in about 5 minutes if the U.S. committed just ONE act. If the U.S. completely pulled out of agreements to protect those places, they'd all be fricked.
Posted on 3/10/17 at 11:35 am to PoundFoolish
The politicians pushing for it don't care if it fails. It's all about power and control.
Posted on 3/10/17 at 11:51 am to PoundFoolish
It's fricking stupid I don't want to pay for somebody when euthanasia is the logical scenario I'm so fricking sick of this debate and I'm pissed at djt because he supporting this bullshite
This post was edited on 3/10/17 at 11:52 am
Posted on 3/10/17 at 12:54 pm to PoundFoolish
I have a couple of interesting experiences with socialized medicine.
I work for a Danish company, have been to Denmark probably 17 times, have many colleagues in DK that I consider friends. They love their "free" healthcare, but my company also provides private health insurance for our Danish based employees in Denmark so they can go to private Dr's and Hospitals and avoid long wait times and receive better quality services we take for granted here in the US. 6 months to a year for an MRI?
I was travelling in Switzerland with some colleagues when one started to feel pain in his chest and upper body. I took him to the University of Zurich Hospital, supposedly the top hospital in Switzerland and what a shite show. Outdated facilities, people in beds in the waiting room area. They worked on him all day and ran all sorts of tests, and could not find anything wrong with him. My company made it my responsibility to get him home, so we flew back the next day - he went to see his primary care physician and within 15 minutes had him diagnosed with a virus that's causes inflammation of the cartilage in the rib cage, gave him a steroid shot and it was gone in no time.
I work for a Danish company, have been to Denmark probably 17 times, have many colleagues in DK that I consider friends. They love their "free" healthcare, but my company also provides private health insurance for our Danish based employees in Denmark so they can go to private Dr's and Hospitals and avoid long wait times and receive better quality services we take for granted here in the US. 6 months to a year for an MRI?
I was travelling in Switzerland with some colleagues when one started to feel pain in his chest and upper body. I took him to the University of Zurich Hospital, supposedly the top hospital in Switzerland and what a shite show. Outdated facilities, people in beds in the waiting room area. They worked on him all day and ran all sorts of tests, and could not find anything wrong with him. My company made it my responsibility to get him home, so we flew back the next day - he went to see his primary care physician and within 15 minutes had him diagnosed with a virus that's causes inflammation of the cartilage in the rib cage, gave him a steroid shot and it was gone in no time.
This post was edited on 3/10/17 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 3/10/17 at 1:11 pm to PoundFoolish
Here's an idea for healthcare.
1. Everyone is born with a HSA. As a child, the HSA cannot go negative and the parents can direct a percentage of their annual income tax into the child's HSA with certain incentives. Minimum contributions to your HSA is mandated by law and can vary based on a risk profile and income.
2. Private healthcare is turned into an actual marketplace by removing insurance's role as the main method of healthcare compensation, and a major reduction in regulations. Insurance is reduced to catasrophic coverage which is mandatory for all to have to cover things that no reasonable HSA savings could cover.
3. Doctors are required to establish a public record of service costs to allow people to shop around and compare.
4. If a person is chronically ill or poor and cannot pay for catastrophic insurance or medical costs then they are placed on medicaid upon proof of lack of ability to pay. Costs incurred to medicaid is compensated upon future ability to pay. A sort of wellfare debt.
5. Lifestyle choices may determine if someone is covered by medicaid. Smokers will not be covered for lung cancer, obese will not be covered for any number of related expensive to treat illnesses. Personal responsibility is enforced.
1. Everyone is born with a HSA. As a child, the HSA cannot go negative and the parents can direct a percentage of their annual income tax into the child's HSA with certain incentives. Minimum contributions to your HSA is mandated by law and can vary based on a risk profile and income.
2. Private healthcare is turned into an actual marketplace by removing insurance's role as the main method of healthcare compensation, and a major reduction in regulations. Insurance is reduced to catasrophic coverage which is mandatory for all to have to cover things that no reasonable HSA savings could cover.
3. Doctors are required to establish a public record of service costs to allow people to shop around and compare.
4. If a person is chronically ill or poor and cannot pay for catastrophic insurance or medical costs then they are placed on medicaid upon proof of lack of ability to pay. Costs incurred to medicaid is compensated upon future ability to pay. A sort of wellfare debt.
5. Lifestyle choices may determine if someone is covered by medicaid. Smokers will not be covered for lung cancer, obese will not be covered for any number of related expensive to treat illnesses. Personal responsibility is enforced.
Posted on 3/10/17 at 1:49 pm to PoundFoolish
You have to understand that most people see government and spending like a teenager sees their parents. When a teenager asks their parents for $100 to buy a name brand pair of shoes or go on some field trip and their parent says no, they don't think "money is tight right now and maybe they can't spare it." No, they see that their parents have this house and cars and all this money so they just refuse to give them that $100 because they're mean. To a teenager, parents never have a shortage of money, only a lack of will to spend it on a given purpose.
The same is true for most people and government. They see the government spending money on all of these things they see as unnecessary like studies on how shrimp exercise, installing Applebees franchises on military bases in Afghanistan, buying tanks and airplanes we don't need, imprisoning thousands and thousands of people for simple drug possession, paying farmers not to grow food, paying indigents to have kids, etc. They never see a lack of money for the government, only a lack of will to spend it on causes which they see as worthwhile. The government refusing to provide healthcare could only be doing so out of callousness in their eyes. It can't be because the government can't afford to. We're already trillions in debt and have the power to print our own money. We already spend trillions just to rebuild Afghanistan which is arguable worse off than when we got there.
To the "good-hearted" liberal, there is no shortage of money, only a lack of will to spend it on worthy causes.
The same is true for most people and government. They see the government spending money on all of these things they see as unnecessary like studies on how shrimp exercise, installing Applebees franchises on military bases in Afghanistan, buying tanks and airplanes we don't need, imprisoning thousands and thousands of people for simple drug possession, paying farmers not to grow food, paying indigents to have kids, etc. They never see a lack of money for the government, only a lack of will to spend it on causes which they see as worthwhile. The government refusing to provide healthcare could only be doing so out of callousness in their eyes. It can't be because the government can't afford to. We're already trillions in debt and have the power to print our own money. We already spend trillions just to rebuild Afghanistan which is arguable worse off than when we got there.
To the "good-hearted" liberal, there is no shortage of money, only a lack of will to spend it on worthy causes.
Posted on 3/10/17 at 4:10 pm to PoundFoolish
People don't want to spend money on their healthcare. They'd rather spend it on a good phone and a good phone plan.
Posted on 3/11/17 at 1:14 pm to PoundFoolish
quote:
Why can't people understand that socialized medicine will ultimately fail? by PoundFoolish
...but...but...
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