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Started By
Message
re: Indiana cops bust window and use stun gun on passenger in seatbelt stop
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:18 am to KosmoCramer
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:18 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
I don't think you understand the law in your own state.
Actually, its more along the lines of not pretending to be a roadside lawyer and as far as the written law and legal precedent is concerned, it can be interpreted several ways.
But, hey, you fight the good fight.
3
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:18 am to Volvagia
You don't have to provide them with anything but your information verbally.
The police cannot not detain you on suspicion or investigate you without cause, requiring you to prove your identity, unless they are willing to arrest you--this isn't a dictatorship, we have the right to move freely without government intrusion.
The police cannot not detain you on suspicion or investigate you without cause, requiring you to prove your identity, unless they are willing to arrest you--this isn't a dictatorship, we have the right to move freely without government intrusion.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:20 am to Volvagia
quote:
Actually, its more along the lines of not pretending to be a roadside lawyer and as far as the written law and legal precedent is concerned, it can be interpreted several ways.
But, hey, you fight the good fight
You're the one that started the ad hominem attacks, and then went on spreading false information and then backtracked.
Just sayin.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:22 am to Volvagia
quote:
Actually, its more along the lines of not pretending to be a roadside lawyer and as far as the written law and legal precedent is concerned, it can be interpreted several ways.
But, hey, you fight the good fight.
Is it too late to start calling you guys Tories?
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:31 am to Mud_Till_May
nvmd
This post was edited on 10/8/14 at 1:48 am
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:34 am to Volvagia
quote:
Volvagia
Reading through your posts in this thread from the beginning, you truly were wrong the entire time and didn't just have poor wording.
Wow.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:59 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
You're the one that started the ad hominem attacks, and then went on spreading false information and then backtracked.
How did I backtrack?
I said there wasn't a law requiring physical ID before anyone replied to me. And I said it only applied in specific circumstances out the gate.
And how is it ad hominem to say that how can you be so certain of another state's laws?
Because you went to wikipedia after that statement and looked it up to double check?
Show me where it says that strictly verbal sharing is sufficient. None, right? And legal arguments have slid both ways.
Hell, in the case of the OP, with even more lax laws compared to LA, the PD is standing behind the officer demanding physical ID, not taking his word, not taking his ticket as any kind of proof, and still wanting to arrest him.
And they are standing behind their actions through a lawsuit.
Again....this shite has come up across the country many times and in appeals courts. And it has slid both ways. Some appeals courts saying expressly that it is well within the officer's rights to demand written identification. And when it has gone to the Supreme Court they have sidestepped actually saying you can't demand written proof period.
So yes, marching around here saying with 100% certainty that you don't need to identify yourself no matter where you are in the US, and if you do, verbal identification will always suffice is full of shite.
This post was edited on 10/8/14 at 2:02 am
Posted on 10/8/14 at 2:04 am to Volvagia
quote:
I said there wasn't a law requiring physical ID before anyone replied to me
This was the first half of your first post in this thread:
quote:
After that, you are required to show ID, and if you can't, it is up to the officer's discretion if he wants to arrest you
I don't how this can be construed any other way than there is a law requiring ID. So yes, you were wrong from the beginning.
The reason I know about LA law as another poster mentioned, the poster Five-0 is an LEO who knows his stuff and posted a bunch of case law that I leafed through the other day on this very subject. It was pretty clear that you don't need a physical ID.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 2:09 am to Volvagia
quote:
Hell, in the case of the OP, with even more lax laws compared to LA, the PD is standing behind the officer demanding physical ID, not taking his word, not taking his ticket as any kind of proof, and still wanting to arrest him.
Hence the outrage. The LEO overstepped his bounds tremendously and then went even further when he assaulted the guy after shattering his window.
I believe someone posted that they settled out of court for an undisclosed amount, if true they obviously knew he broke the law.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 2:16 am to bencoleman
Making not wearing a seatbelt a primary offense is the biggest bullshite. Nanny state jackboot shite.
And people wonder why folks worry about the slippery slope of "gun control"
And people wonder why folks worry about the slippery slope of "gun control"
Posted on 10/8/14 at 5:39 am to mouton
There is absolutely no reason to have to get out of a car for a seatbelt violation, none. Good luck in your next career "Sarge".
Posted on 10/8/14 at 5:47 am to Kritten
The internet, the ACLU, and other watchdog and civil rights groups are doing a good job educating people about their rights and how to act when placed in this type of situation.
He lowered his window slightly to inform him he wasn't going to step out, and the officer never mentioned anything about a weapon (at least on that video).
It's my understanding that police can ask you to step out to frisk you if they have reasonable suspicion that you might have a weapon. That didn't seem to be the case.
That truly is another shocking video. I hope he gets paid.
He lowered his window slightly to inform him he wasn't going to step out, and the officer never mentioned anything about a weapon (at least on that video).
It's my understanding that police can ask you to step out to frisk you if they have reasonable suspicion that you might have a weapon. That didn't seem to be the case.
That truly is another shocking video. I hope he gets paid.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 6:02 am to East Coast Band
Pennsylvania v Mimms states that an officer does not need a reason to ask occupants to step out of the vehicle. He/She is within his/her scope of authority to do so.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 6:14 am to SoFla Tideroller
I'm not sure if that's the case. The driver, yes. But the passenger isn't being detained initially in the stop he presumably was wearing a seat belt.
Thus in the scope of the investigation he wasn't a party to that so he isn't subject to being in the car, as being it out of the car.
I may be interpreting what I read incorrectly though.
Thus in the scope of the investigation he wasn't a party to that so he isn't subject to being in the car, as being it out of the car.
I may be interpreting what I read incorrectly though.
This post was edited on 10/8/14 at 6:16 am
Posted on 10/8/14 at 6:22 am to tjohn deaux
tjohn deaux, boot lickers like you make me sick ..... The whole "well he should have just stepped out and nothing would have happened if you hadn't done anything wrong" crowd is pathetic...
Completely pathetic
Did you miss the part that the family already called 911 because the cop was aggressive over A SEAT BELT and asked to have rank on scene because he feared for his life?
When the fricking piece of shite absoulute scum of the earth bald head frick face decided to curse the guy and call him names for NO REASON at all in front of his children when the man was calm and communicating, just not wanting to step out until rank was on the scene.
I don't blame him ONE SINGLE BIT for not wanting to step out of the car when you have a mentally unstable person standing outside of the car with a weapon drawn, would you feel safe stepping out of your vehicle with a MENTALLY UNSTABLE person standing outside of if??? I hope not...
I'm sure that cop already has several reports wrote out in his cruiser with the words "he went for my service weapon and I feared for my life" preimposed on them just in case he "unfortunately" God forbid has "someone" unreasonably escalate a situation, something that I'm sure NO ONE WANTS..... Well except scum of the earth cops that ENJOY trying to escalate a situation to get their rocks off.
fricking scum, and I'm starting to feel the boot lickers that condone this behavior and use the line "well if you didn't do anything wrong then why does it matter" and give up their constitutional rights like they don't mean fricking shite, are just as bad as the fricking complete scum of the earth cops that sit right below Isis and child torcherers and molesters in donte's hell circle as the worst of the worst in my opinion.
I hope every cop that even has had one fricking power trip is treated to a life of misery. They deserve it. It's the only people I can think of that I actually hate. I really do have hate for bad cops. I don't hope they all die, I hope every cop that has ever looked the other way when another cop has wronged someone doesn't die a shitty death like burning alive or something, that's too easy, I want them to live but as a fricking vegetable and have to watch their kids have to take care of them and them live in perpetual pain into their late 90s and for thier kids to not fricking respect them because they were the scum of the entire earth, fricking crooked power hungry mentally unstable cops.
God I can't tell you how much this video pisses me off. I would throw a party tonight and celebrate that karma is a real thing if that piece of shite cop got in a wreck after that incident and lost all his limbs. He still probably wouldn't have gotten what he deserves. That's the hate I hope for these scum...
Alright I'm out of this thread..... It's too early in the morning for me to get this worked up on my hatred for the trash of our society
Completely pathetic
Did you miss the part that the family already called 911 because the cop was aggressive over A SEAT BELT and asked to have rank on scene because he feared for his life?
When the fricking piece of shite absoulute scum of the earth bald head frick face decided to curse the guy and call him names for NO REASON at all in front of his children when the man was calm and communicating, just not wanting to step out until rank was on the scene.
I don't blame him ONE SINGLE BIT for not wanting to step out of the car when you have a mentally unstable person standing outside of the car with a weapon drawn, would you feel safe stepping out of your vehicle with a MENTALLY UNSTABLE person standing outside of if??? I hope not...
I'm sure that cop already has several reports wrote out in his cruiser with the words "he went for my service weapon and I feared for my life" preimposed on them just in case he "unfortunately" God forbid has "someone" unreasonably escalate a situation, something that I'm sure NO ONE WANTS..... Well except scum of the earth cops that ENJOY trying to escalate a situation to get their rocks off.
fricking scum, and I'm starting to feel the boot lickers that condone this behavior and use the line "well if you didn't do anything wrong then why does it matter" and give up their constitutional rights like they don't mean fricking shite, are just as bad as the fricking complete scum of the earth cops that sit right below Isis and child torcherers and molesters in donte's hell circle as the worst of the worst in my opinion.
I hope every cop that even has had one fricking power trip is treated to a life of misery. They deserve it. It's the only people I can think of that I actually hate. I really do have hate for bad cops. I don't hope they all die, I hope every cop that has ever looked the other way when another cop has wronged someone doesn't die a shitty death like burning alive or something, that's too easy, I want them to live but as a fricking vegetable and have to watch their kids have to take care of them and them live in perpetual pain into their late 90s and for thier kids to not fricking respect them because they were the scum of the entire earth, fricking crooked power hungry mentally unstable cops.
God I can't tell you how much this video pisses me off. I would throw a party tonight and celebrate that karma is a real thing if that piece of shite cop got in a wreck after that incident and lost all his limbs. He still probably wouldn't have gotten what he deserves. That's the hate I hope for these scum...
Alright I'm out of this thread..... It's too early in the morning for me to get this worked up on my hatred for the trash of our society
Posted on 10/8/14 at 7:06 am to mouton
frick those racist piece of shite cops.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 7:11 am to mouton
Sorry, but that dumbass should have gotten out of the car when he was ordered to exit the vehicle. No sympathy here.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 7:29 am to Kritten
quote:He was asked to exit the vehicle because he reached in or near the middle console. (that's what the cops said). It might be bullshite, but that's the reason they gave for requiring him to step out of the vehicle.
There is absolutely no reason to have to get out of a car for a seatbelt violation, none. Good luck in your next career "Sarge".
Posted on 10/8/14 at 7:50 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
I'm not sure if that's the case.
The correct case is Maryland v. Wilson, it piggybacked off of Penn V. Mimms
quote:
n 1997, the United States Supreme Court held, in Maryland v. Wilson, that it is reasonable for officers to order passengers in a lawfully stopped automobile to exit the vehicle.i The court reasoned that there must be a balance during a traffic stop between the need of the police to maintain officer safety and the Fourth Amendment rights of passengers. The court concluded that a passenger is only minimally inconvenienced, and basically, the most significant change in the passenger’s circumstance is that they will be outside rather than inside the vehicle.
LINK
Posted on 10/8/14 at 8:00 am to KosmoCramer
quote:He already did.
I hope he gets paid.
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