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Message
This board has convinced me that race is not an issue
Posted on 8/18/14 at 5:54 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 5:54 pm
It is the issue.
I came here expecting many on the board to be complaining and criticizing the big-government overreach and police-state tactics on full display in Ferguson. I expected this "libertarian" board to be disgusted by displays of excessive force and intimidation as well as restriction of the press. I thought that maybe I'd find common ground with folks I usually argued with. Instead, I feel like the general tone of the board is that Michael Brown was a criminal that deserved to be shot and that the protestors are in fact violent looters who deserve to be put under martial law. Why does it seem like so many supporters of individual freedom have gone silent or flipped sides when Big Brother isn't after them?
I came here expecting many on the board to be complaining and criticizing the big-government overreach and police-state tactics on full display in Ferguson. I expected this "libertarian" board to be disgusted by displays of excessive force and intimidation as well as restriction of the press. I thought that maybe I'd find common ground with folks I usually argued with. Instead, I feel like the general tone of the board is that Michael Brown was a criminal that deserved to be shot and that the protestors are in fact violent looters who deserve to be put under martial law. Why does it seem like so many supporters of individual freedom have gone silent or flipped sides when Big Brother isn't after them?
Posted on 8/18/14 at 5:56 pm to inelishaitrust
What a load of nonsense.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 5:56 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
Why does it seem like so many supporters of individual freedom have gone silent or flipped sides when Big Brother isn't after them?
Have you been reading these threads at all?
Figured it gravitate toward race instead of the real issues. It always does.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 5:57 pm to inelishaitrust
Business is about to pick up
Posted on 8/18/14 at 5:59 pm to inelishaitrust
i posted about the police state issues before rand paul made it cool to discuss
i think the protestors are free to protest within their constitutional limits. i think the media is fueling a lot of the protests and creating issues for police. i think the media is symbolically "pushing" the police and then filming the reaction
i'm not an anarchist and the looters in ferguson is an amazing explanation of why i'm not an anarchist
i believe that we have to wait for more evidence of the shooting, but as of now, it looks like brown ran at the cop after a struggle, and the cop's story checks out. you can be against the militarization of police and still understand the fact that cops can protect themselves
i think the protestors are free to protest within their constitutional limits. i think the media is fueling a lot of the protests and creating issues for police. i think the media is symbolically "pushing" the police and then filming the reaction
i'm not an anarchist and the looters in ferguson is an amazing explanation of why i'm not an anarchist
i believe that we have to wait for more evidence of the shooting, but as of now, it looks like brown ran at the cop after a struggle, and the cop's story checks out. you can be against the militarization of police and still understand the fact that cops can protect themselves
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 6:00 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:01 pm to inelishaitrust
Libertarians believe that the mission of law is not to oppress persons and plunder them of their property, but rather to protect property. There is absolutely a compelling reason for force to be used against these looters, for they are violating the god-given right of property ownership on the part of the store owners.
In fact, the state stepping in to stop looters is one of its FEW legitimate actions.
In fact, the state stepping in to stop looters is one of its FEW legitimate actions.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:02 pm to inelishaitrust
Just who the frick do you think you are? Are you 12 yrs old?
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:04 pm to inelishaitrust
Sorry to have disappointed you?
I feel like the media has spun this out of control into a race issue when that really shouldn't have been the case at all. This should have been a discussion about the militarisation of our police forces and the failed war on drugs and how it disproportionately affects black Americans. Instead, CNN, MSNBC, and the other race baiters (Sharpton, et al) have turned it into a circus.
The "victim" in this case makes it hard to drum up a bunch of sympathy. While I do feel sorry that all of this happened, if you charge an armed police officer after robbing a convenience store, well......
I feel like the media has spun this out of control into a race issue when that really shouldn't have been the case at all. This should have been a discussion about the militarisation of our police forces and the failed war on drugs and how it disproportionately affects black Americans. Instead, CNN, MSNBC, and the other race baiters (Sharpton, et al) have turned it into a circus.
The "victim" in this case makes it hard to drum up a bunch of sympathy. While I do feel sorry that all of this happened, if you charge an armed police officer after robbing a convenience store, well......
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:06 pm to inelishaitrust
If the policeman had shot a white man it wouldn't even be on the board as a topic of discussion because there would have been no riots. How can this story be talked about outside of a racial context when it has been made a racial issue from the start?
It's like your asking us to talk about the room decor without mentioning the huge elephant sitting right in the middle of that room!
It's like your asking us to talk about the room decor without mentioning the huge elephant sitting right in the middle of that room!
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 6:13 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:06 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
the big-government overreach and police-state tactics on full display in Ferguson.
So what should they do? Wave their revolvers, get overrun and let the looters burn down whatever they can?
What would you have done?
Secondly, many on this board are angered by the predictable bias and misinformation put out by the media as this story started. He was a criminal as many pointed out, but you want a straw man that says we all believe he therefore should have been shot.
I realize that people like you are out to find racism under every rock and that blinds you to what people are actually posting.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:09 pm to inelishaitrust
Holy crap...did you not pay any attention to the discussion last week? A lot of people don't like it.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:27 pm to inelishaitrust
This is a complex situation which can be framed in any number of ways. What is really tiresome is the framing of police "over reach" when people's private property and businesses have been destroyed and looted. Do you guys ever think that maybe the cops and NG are present to protect the rights of property owners, many of whom have lost a lot already?
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:39 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
inelishaitrust
You're not paying enough attention then.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:41 pm to inelishaitrust
CNN race baits with criminal zeal and WE are race-obsessed?
No, we just examined the facts. The discussion would certainly be about a use of power if it wasn't becoming evident that the guy rushed the cop and had just robbed a convenience store.
No, we just examined the facts. The discussion would certainly be about a use of power if it wasn't becoming evident that the guy rushed the cop and had just robbed a convenience store.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:42 pm to Sentrius
quote:
You're not paying enough attention then.
Goes to show you that many people see what they choose to see.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:43 pm to wmr
quote:
Do you guys ever think that maybe the cops and NG are present to protect the rights of property owners, many of whom have lost a lot already?
This is how I feel. Personal property has been destroyed. It seems like the people in Ferguson have been peaceful. It's the people from out of town that are causing most of the trouble.
I just want to know how these people have been able to walk the streets for over a week. Are they using PTO? Sick leave? Are they unemployed?
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:45 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
Instead, I feel like the general tone of the board is that Michael Brown was a criminal that deserved to be shot and that the protestors are in fact violent looters who deserve to be put under martial law.
I'll play your game.
Right now, in a Libertarian society, the rest of the populace would go shoot the violent protesters and that would be that. Don't think that's an option, so working within the confines of existing law, our current system demands the State do what it has to do to maintain order.
I don't agree with it personally, I'd much rather the animals get shot by citizens defending their property. I'm glad you agree with me too.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:46 pm to inelishaitrust
I for one have yet to see enough official evidence to place blame on anyone
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:48 pm to inelishaitrust
quote:
I came here expecting many on the board to be complaining and criticizing the big-government overreach and police-state tactics on full display in Ferguson. I expected this "libertarian" board to be disgusted by displays of excessive force and intimidation as well as restriction of the press. I thought that maybe I'd find common ground with folks I usually argued with. Instead, I feel like the general tone of the board is that Michael Brown was a criminal that deserved to be shot and that the protestors are in fact violent looters who deserve to be put under martial law. Why does it seem like so many supporters of individual freedom have gone silent or flipped sides when Big Brother isn't after them?
I've avoided these threads because I find them maddening, and I hate how the media covers court cases in general, because it's all about ratings and legal porn (see Casey Anthony).
People are presumed innocent until proven guilty and we haven't even gotten to an investigation or a potential charge. That should be our attitude, and to the extent civil rights activists are involved, I think it should be to call for a complete and thorough investigation to be conducted. That's completely fair. Instead we get things like Jesse Jackson calling this a "state-sanctioned murder."
On police militarization, I don't think this is an either-or issue. I can see how a police department needs planes and choppers and even "military-style" firearms. I don't see how they need tanks and grenade launchers. If you literally have a situation like 9/11 where there's chaos in the streets, then call in the National Guard, it's what they're there for.
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