re: Civil War time travel question/debate

I originally factored in their training and force multiplying capabilities. But I still think they would and should carry out missions.

They could easily destroy morale, and instill a ghostlike fear into Union troops by simply doing what they do a few times. Imagine if you caught a small regiment out camping one night, and you slaughtered all but a few of them, then told those survivors you came from the future, and do a quick burst display with your weapon..... Then disappeared into the night to let them tell the story.

Eventually union troops would become so hypervigilent, that they'd soon succumb to battle fatigue and either start whacking out their own people in fits of paranoia, and or themselves. The possibilities are almost endless how you could use that force.

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Holy frick man, you keep missing the point. It's 100 Seals augmenting the southern troops. Not 100 troops by themselves.

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Holy frick man, thats not at all what the OP said.

So which one of you is Stephen S and sent this in to Clay Travis?

LINK

Stephen S. writes:

"I recently rewatched the movie "The Final Countdown" in which a modern aircraft carrier was thrown back in time to 1941 near Hawaii, just hours before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The movie introduced the premise that a single modern warship would devastate a WWII era fleet.

This got me to thinking about modern soldiers on the ground and how few it would take to win an entire war from history. For example, could a SEAL platoon (16 men) who had access only to the weapons and ammunition they could carry (no airstrikes or artillery barrages), but with access to air dropped supplies from which they could restock, defeat an entire Civil War era army?
Just the difference and speed from which modern soldiers could engage their enemy would be dramatic. Civil War soldiers regularly engaged from 40-50 yards, standing shoulder to shoulder, firing three inaccurate volleys per minute. Some estimates are that only 1 shot in 300 resulted in an enemy casualty. Meanwhile, your "average" SEAL could easily and accurately engage 10 different targets per minute from a distance of 250-300 yards while concealed by cover and protected by body armor. With modern technology like night vision goggles, radio communications and battlefield medicine, the SEAL platoon would have an incredible advantage over the opposing army and could pick and choose their battlefields.

To "win" the war, the SEALs would need to kill enough soldiers and eliminate enough commanding officers, ideally without ever being seen, that the "legend" of their presence caused the opposing soldiers to run away and refuse to fight. So could a 16-man SEAL platoon defeat a 100,000-man strong Union or Confederate army?"

I think what you're missing here is the power of Civil War artillery. While I acknowledge that a direct frontal assault on 16 navy seals would be a casualty-laden, keep in mind that cannons from the Civil War era were accurate over great distances. So you could set up an artillery barrage and potentially wipe out the seals that way without having to commit troops at all. The seals would be virtually powerless to combat the artillery since they couldn't get close enough to disable the batteries of cannons.

Even without cannons, let's assume that a Pickett's Charge type assault happened upon 16 entrenched Navy Seals. The attacking lines would stretch nearly a mile long. While many of the troops would be sitting ducks -- the casualty rate would be brutal directly in front of the seals -- the attacking column would wrap around the seals and flank them pretty quickly. Eventually there would be attackers coming from all directions, front, to the sides, and the rear. Even with inaccurate aim, there would be tons of minie balls peppering the seal position. Given that your hypothesis only allows the seals to have whatever ammunition they could carry, they'd run out before more materials could be dropped to aid them. Eventually their position would be overrun.

So building on your question, how many navy seals would it take to defeat a modern Union or Confederate army if the seals had unlimited modern day supplies? I'm thinking 2000 seals could defeat a 100,000 man army if the army is forced to attack them. For instance, if I had to choose between having the modern day seals or General Lee's army at Gettysburg, I'm going seals. The big caveat here is that I'm still not sure the seals could attack and win any battles. So if you put General Meade's army in the exact same defensive position at Gettysburg, how many attacking seals would it take to win the battle and rout the Union army? I'm thinking at least 5000 seals would need to attack. (They'd obviously attack differently, probably crawling out under the cover of night and then commencing an attack at night using their night vision goggles. The biggest threat for the seals would be artillery, but you could neutralize that impact by spreading out a great deal and forcing the cannons to hit one or two people at a time. Of course, by spreading out, you've also virtually guaranteed that every time a cannon fires it hits someone.)

I know we have a ton of readers in military service, one of you guys can probably deliver a stellar analysis of both tactical positions. How many seals do y'all think it would take?

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Yeah but if you think of the sheer number of the Union Army. If all they had to do was kill 100 men to win the war they could just swarm the Seals. A lot of Union troops would fall no doubt, but they could be overwhelmed by brute force.

Even with unlimited ammo they'd still have to take time to reload and all that good stuff, the cavalry could get there pretty quick.

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What are you talking about? You think they will line up in a straight line British Red Coat style and march their happy asses right up to the Confederates? They would fight as SEALS. I often wonder how the outcome of any given battle would change if just one elite modern soldier were given a modern rifle, sufficient cover, intelligence, and unlimited ammo. He could bed down outside of musket range, pick off the officers and inflict 100's of KIA's in hours. Give him a few days and the psychological aspects would be dire on any army. Now think of what 100 SEALS could do.

The fact that people think that somehow modern seals could "train" Civil War era soldiers on how to fight better using Civil War era weapons is laughable.

This would have beven better if you had said 100 special forces soldiers. Seals are great with small unit tactics but almost none, if any, of them have ever served in an infantry platoon. SF are force multipliers and almost all of them come from an infantry background meaning they would be able to train the rebels how to fight. With that being said we already had the best generals and the best tactics for the time. I don't know if 100 modern soldiers from any branch would make much of a difference.
The best way to utilize 100 modern soldiers would be to have them assassinate union leadership targets with sniper fire.

You make a great point but it wouldn't even be where they keep coming and coming. Wouldn't even come to that. Men of civil war days grew up in the woods. They would be a lot more efficient at hunting down the navy seals than people think. At night they would stay in people's homes or just flat hide in the woods like animals. It wouldn't even be a contest. Once the army realized what they were fighting, which wouldn't take long, seals would be wiped out in a week.

This ain't the British charging bunker hill and they would be smart enough to where it wouldn't be a Pickets charge. The navy seals would be getting fired on from all angles and wouldn't have a clue where it was coming from. The yanks would figure out pretty quick not to clump up a bunch of men and charge a field. Again, all they would need at most is 1000 guys who are good with guns and good in the woods and it wouldn't be a contest.