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re: Davis is shooting 55% from midrange so far..
Posted on 11/4/13 at 12:39 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 11/4/13 at 12:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:He scores way too many points around the rim to be considered a sf. And blowing past slow footed PFs is one thing at 15 ft. Its another to do that from behind the 3 point line.
well that starts with AD playing like a SF
Everyone watched Rasheed Wallace blow the last decade of his career by turning into a passive, inefficient, 3 point shooter. He had an unstoppable turn around jumper in the low post early in his career.
He turned into just another guy on offense by floating behind the 3 point line. Davis' touch around the rim is too masterful to turn him into that. It would be a total waste.
quote:And my question is why is it necessary? Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, the two greatest PFs of all time built careers on mid range jumpers and post games. I'd rather see Davis keep adding strength to hold position in the post than spending his summers jacking up 3 pointers.
the question is why not dominate from 23 ft and in?
...hopefully, and i have no doubt that he will, he'll develop a back to the basket game...but his game right now is 20 feet or the rim.
As his career goes on, the ability to throw him the ball in the post late in games will be much better for him and the team than running pick and pop 3 pointers when we need a late basket.
2
Posted on 11/4/13 at 6:27 am to eyeran
quote:
And my question is why is it necessary?
It isn't. Davis is already a legitimate offensive player with just his finishing ability around the rim. Add his improved jumper and face up game and you have a skill set that can anchor an offense
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 6:28 am
Posted on 11/4/13 at 7:24 am to corndeaux
why bother learning 3s why not just skip to half court shots....no one defends them, our half court sets arent that good anyway, and if you miss you can get back on D. AD has "HOF potential" problem solved.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 7:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
of course you'll take SOME long 2s, but you want your bread and butter to be at the rim and behind the 3 point line
Anthony Davis isn't capable of playing behind the 3 point line right now. He's not playing like a 3, he's playing like a stretch four. He's a one dribble to the rim kind of guy, he can't do that from behind the 3 point line.
Yeah it would be great if he was a Lebron or Durant, but his offensive game isn't there. His strength is his quick first step and explosiveness, you take that away by playing him more behind the 3 point line.
I know the advanced statistics are starting to impact the game, but at some point you have to be realistic about the players ability.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 7:49 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
His strength is his quick first step and explosiveness, you take that away by playing him more behind the 3 point line.
by playing 1 step further back than he has been?
quote:
but at some point you have to be realistic about the players ability.
he is hitting long 2s at a pretty good clip right now. i can only think of one player who can't translate midrange/long 2s into 3s and that's d wade
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:02 am to eyeran
quote:
He scores way too many points around the rim to be considered a sf. And blowing past slow footed PFs is one thing at 15 ft. Its another to do that from behind the 3 point line.
Everyone watched Rasheed Wallace blow the last decade of his career by turning into a passive, inefficient, 3 point shooter. He had an unstoppable turn around jumper in the low post early in his career.
He turned into just another guy on offense by floating behind the 3 point line. Davis' touch around the rim is too masterful to turn him into that. It would be a total waste.
Similar to Rasheed, a few weeks ago someone here said Bosh was AD's best comparable, but they clearly had never seen Bosh play in Toronto.
I agree, don't turn AD into a SF just because he can. His best mismatches will come against bigs. His best defensive performances will come from protecting the paint off ball and being able to switch on P&Rs. He may be able to be a decent SF, but that doesn't really play to his strengths at all.
As far as long 2 vs. 3, I think 42 has it right in the goal really should be to be good at everything so the defense can never shut you down. Then you take the most efficient shot that they give you because they can't guard everything.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
by playing 1 step further back than he has been?
Yeah, that makes the one dribble drive to the rim, a 2 dribble drive.
quote:
he is hitting long 2s at a pretty good clip right now. i can only think of one player who can't translate midrange/long 2s into 3s and that's d wade
I'm not talking about his ability to make 3's, I'm talking about his ability to play behind the 3 point line. I'm sure he's a fine at hitting a spot up 3, but he doesn't have the dribble drive ability of the Lebron's, Durant's, etc... to be truly effective from out there. That would pretty much eliminate his ability to get to the rim.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:10 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
That would pretty much eliminate his ability to get to the rim.
i just completely disagree with this
there are plenty of other "Taller" wings who can drive and shoot 3s, like paul george or nick batum
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there are plenty of other "Taller" wings who can drive and shoot 3s, like paul george or nick batum
Right, guys that have the capability to make moves with the ball in their hands. Right now, AD is a one dribble drive guy, he doesn't have the handles to drive by guys from beyond the 3 point line or utilize screens with the ball in his hands. And I would be pretty surprised if he ever develops that skill in his career.
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 8:24 am
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:21 am to 42
quote:
The stigma of midrange or long 2's is simply a product of lazy-to-boneheaded analysis. If people don't shoot credible shots from all over the floor, the defense can focus in certain areas without overcommitting. With those credible threats, the defense has to cover the entire floor, it helps you take more of the more efficient shots AND have the actually be more efficient.
Simply going "all dunks and 3's" helps the defense stop those shots when then makes those midrange shots more attractive, and so it goes.
It's not about should a team shoot those, but rather who should shoot them and how often.
To me, take your worst players and set them up to succeed. Let your best players fill in the spaces. That strategy makes your less credible threats as credible as possible, which keeps the D `honest'.
Hence, the AD's and TD's of the world practice and take those `junk' shots. They do well at them, to boot. Why? Because they practice it.
Who cares about the average? You plan for the team you have.
...i do think Davis will take some 3s though in the future...maybe late game in-bounds situations when you can get him wide open cause teams are focusing on Anderson, Morrow, Jrue, etc.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:27 am to drake20
It would certainly behoove Davis to develop a three point shot and I'm confident he will. It wouldn't surprise me if ends up hitting around 20 this year alone. But think about all the players he's being compared to. Dirk,Garnett, Duncan. All did a ton of their work in the midrange. Dirk was the only one who ever developed a three pointer as a consistent weapon but even then it wasn't his primary option
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:31 am to tigerfan88
well duncan is the farthest comparison right now, both in terms of the offenses run when he came in the league and his ability to play in the post from the get go. his bread and butter started in the low block. davis is closer to shooting 3s than being duncan in the post
garnett (again in a different offensive era) shot about 0.5-1.4 3s per game from 99-00 until he went to boston
garnett (again in a different offensive era) shot about 0.5-1.4 3s per game from 99-00 until he went to boston
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Davis is nothing like those two.
i just completely disagree with this
there are plenty of other "Taller" wings who can drive and shoot 3s, like paul george or nick batum
He's a big, bottom line. Unique circumstances have given him the ability to handle a little, but nowhere near the level of actual elite NBA small forwards. And he certainly doesn't have the footwork to take the likes of Paul George or Lebron James off the dribble.
I understand what the numbers say about long 2s vs 3s. I just don't think that stat should be used blindly, or universally.
Holiday or Gordon, for example, could do themselves a favor by taking a step back and taking 3s in stead of long 2s. (Although, Holiday is deadly on those pull ups around the FT line.)
That doesn't mean the same philosophy should apply to our best big man, though. The guy has an uncanny ability to catch and finish almost everything they can throw to him, around the rim. The goal should be to get your 6'10" athletic freak shots closer to the rim. Bigs invevitably settle and start falling in love with the 3pt line once you give them the chance.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 8:56 am to eyeran
quote:
Bigs invevitably settle and start falling in love with the 3pt line once you give them the chance.
Just can't trust 'em.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 9:35 am to 42
quote:
Why not just do it from 3 instead of the long 2? Ask Durant and James why he takes as many long 2's as 3's in that chart?
Ask Durant why his big changes were making all shots better and speading the threat around, not eliminating long 2's.
I think we basically agree, and the charts support the claim that the best scorers can and do score effecrively from midrange.
And I get the extra point of yield necessitating less accuracy. That is not the point. The point is for the team to be able to score effectively by keeping the defense from knowing what is going to happen, at least in a partial information sense. It's basically presenting the bad guys with maximum entropy and making them deal with it. Trying to optimize every shot's value individually gives too much info to the defense, so they focus and erode your yield.
This is right.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 9:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
like paul george or nick batum
SFs...
Posted on 11/4/13 at 9:57 am to quail man
Dirk has been mentioned multiple times
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:05 am to Epic Cajun
once, and in passing, at least on this page.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:10 am to quail man
People try hard to compare him to Dirk, to KG, to Bosh, etc etc etc.
I think Davis is his own guy, and I think ultimately, no comparisons will be fully apt. He's a pretty unique player. In the future, people will be patterning their games after AD.
He just does so many things. He plays near the rim and blocks shots, he defends, he can drive to the goal, he can breakdown other PFs, he can hit the midrange, he can get out and run, he can pass the ball, etc ,etc.
While I don't think anyone is opposed to AD adding the 3 to his arsenal, it would take away from what he's best at to make it a more than 1-2 times a game occurrence. Adding a complete post game as well as range would make him basically unstoppable.
I think Davis is his own guy, and I think ultimately, no comparisons will be fully apt. He's a pretty unique player. In the future, people will be patterning their games after AD.
He just does so many things. He plays near the rim and blocks shots, he defends, he can drive to the goal, he can breakdown other PFs, he can hit the midrange, he can get out and run, he can pass the ball, etc ,etc.
While I don't think anyone is opposed to AD adding the 3 to his arsenal, it would take away from what he's best at to make it a more than 1-2 times a game occurrence. Adding a complete post game as well as range would make him basically unstoppable.
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