- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Davis is shooting 55% from midrange so far..
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:26 am to eyeran
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:26 am to eyeran
quote:
The guy has an uncanny ability to catch and finish almost everything they can throw to him, around the rim. The goal should be to get your 6'10" athletic freak shots closer to the rim.
well he's got to start playing closer to the rim as his base positioning. he's not at the moment, and if he's going to play away from the rim for about half his game, he needs to develop efficiency in that game
quote:
Bigs invevitably settle and start falling in love with the 3pt line once you give them the chance.
if he's already settling and falling in love with 20 footers, then the incentive is there for him to fall in love with those
if we're going to use terms like "settle" then he's already "settling" for long jumpers
1
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well he's got to start playing closer to the rim as his base positioning. he's not at the moment,
How many 10ft+ jumpers has he taken versus shots near the rim?
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:31 am to 42
quote:
Trying to optimize every shot's value individually gives too much info to the defense,
this makes no sense
in terms of defensive spacing, the physical difference in a long 2 and 3 is almost 0. it's like 2 feet or so
quote:
Ask Durant why his big changes were making all shots better and speading the threat around, not eliminating long 2's.
he, and lebron, shoot fewer long 2s and more 3s now, though
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:34 am to Fun Bunch
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this makes no sense in terms of defensive spacing, the physical difference in a long 2 and 3 is almost 0. it's like 2 feet or so
You can define a long 2 that restrictively if you want, but 2 feet of space can make a big difference.
quote:
he, and lebron, shoot fewer long 2s and more 3s now, though
I fail to see how you are doing anything but agreeing with me.
ETA: Your narrower view of my use of the term defense as being merely defensive spacing may be one of our disconnects.
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 10:39 am
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:42 am to 42
quote:
I fail to see how you are doing anything but agreeing with me.
my whole point with AD is: if he's going to settle for long jumpers, he needs to take more 3s (fewer long 2s, more 3s)
quote:
ETA: Your narrower view of my use of the term defense as being merely defensive spacing may be one of our disconnects.
defensive reaction to where you are on the floor comes down to spacing, especially away from the rim
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 10:44 am
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:43 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
my whole point with AD is: if he's going to settle for long jumpers, he needs to take more 3s (fewer long 2s, more 3s)
Then who takes the long 2's?
ETA:
quote:
defensive reaction to where you are on the floor comes down to spacing, especially away from the rim
No. It's also about assignments, schemes, anticipation, tendencies, etc. as well.
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 10:45 am
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:46 am to 42
quote:
Then who takes the long 2's?
doesn't really matter to me much, b/c these should only really be used off the P/R
it's not a wasted shot, but it's an inefficient shot that doesn't really do much other than help off the P/R
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
my whole point with AD is: if he's going to settle for long jumpers, he needs to take more 3s (fewer long 2s, more 3s)
AD "settles" for long 2's because that's the space he is playing in. When he catches the ball 2 feet from the 3 point line he can make that shot or he can get to the basket with his quick first step.
He's not Lebron or Durant or any other perimeter player that's shooting pull up long 2s off the dribble instead of pull up 3s. AD will hardly get the opportunity to take those 3s because he won't be playing from behind the line unless he drastically improves his ball handling and becomes a mostly perimeter player.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:50 am to 42
quote:
It's also about assignments, schemes, anticipation, tendencies, etc
all of that comes down to spacing, other than assignments (which is an arbitrary coaching decision)
even if you take an outlier defense, like what SA did against memphis (doubling, sometimes tripling on randolph). every person not involved with the double team had to mind their spacing to force memphis to take the least efficient shot
memphis could not create their own spacing (namely, b/c they couldn't shoot 3s, funny enough)
it's an ongoing war of spacing. the NBA has become all about spacing and finding efficiencies on offense
long 2s truly don't add much in terms of spacing (outside of the P/R) and they're inefficient. there is a reason miami, san antonio, houston, etc are avoiding long 2s
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if he's going to settle for long jumpers
He's only taken 12 "long jumpers" this season from what I can tell. That's not a lot. And he's made 50% of them, which is outstanding.
He's actually 2-9 from closer in. 18-35 near the rim.
I don't see the problem here.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:54 am to SlowFlowPro
I think a lot of what you're saying hinges on the belief that a few steps back wont affect the success of the shot...
KG (Davis' best comparison at this point) has made a living on that 20' jumper, hovering around 45% his entire career
he was never better than 32% from 3... under 29% all years but one. He dropped that shot from his bag once he got to Boston.
KG (Davis' best comparison at this point) has made a living on that 20' jumper, hovering around 45% his entire career
he was never better than 32% from 3... under 29% all years but one. He dropped that shot from his bag once he got to Boston.
This post was edited on 11/4/13 at 10:55 am
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:54 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
doesn't really matter to me much, b/c these should only really be used off the P/R
I think this is a limited view. I think good teams have players who are good at this shot, along with 3's, along with closer shots. This gives the D more to worry about and weakens it.
We are both saying teams need to have more efficient shots than inefficient ones. I am saying that the amount of inefficient ones is somewhat colored by the fact that defenses as a whole will `give' you those shots. So, you have to take them at some rate or the defense will choke down your make-rate on your more efficient shots, eroding their yield.
The question is who should take them. Me, I want the bad players to give me max efficiency. I'll let the good players elevate their game since they are the most credible threats for the hard shots.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:55 am to EarthwormJim
quote:
unless he drastically improves his ball handling
i guess i have more faith in him, b/c his handle looks fine for a 6-9+ guy
i feel like i'm either going crazy or everyone else hasn't seen his own choices in his shot selection. i want him more at the rim first and foremost, but his shots at the rim are from (1) drives, (2) putbacks, or (3) alleys. other than driving, he isn't creating shots at the rim right now, and he's shooting a LOT of long jumpers.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:56 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
He's only taken 12 "long jumpers" this season from what I can tell. That's not a lot. And he's made 50% of them, which is outstanding.
well he's taking shots at the rim or long jumpers
he's not even really shooting midrange shots, which everyone seems to be acting like he is doing
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:56 am to MrPappagiorgio
quote:
KG (Davis' best comparison at this point) has made a living on that 20' jumper, hovering around 45% his entire career
he was never better than 32% from 3.
different era before the NBA became more efficient
Posted on 11/4/13 at 10:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there is a reason miami, san antonio, houston, etc are avoiding long 2s
You sure about that?
They take less of them, but look at the rate their stars take those shots.
LINK
We're talking a difference in degree here, not a difference in kind. I think you are just looking at the benefit of taking the highest number of efficient shots without looking at how a defense will react, necessitating long 2's, etc.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 11:00 am to MrPappagiorgio
quote:
I think a lot of what you're saying hinges on the belief that a few steps back wont affect the success of the shot...
This is the point of it. He hasn't taken enough 3s to know what rate he shoots it at. If he continues shooting the long 2 at 50%, he needs to shoot at least 34% from 3 for it to be worth it.
It also ignores the value of a made shot with regards to setting up defense. If Davis shoots a 3 and misses, it increases breakaway chances for the opposition.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
guess i have more faith in him, b/c his handle looks fine for a 6-9+ guy
Yeah, good handles for a 6'9" guy, but not good enough to be able to play behind the 3 point line. His only success from there would have to be catch and shoot threes. He doesn't have the ability to navigate screens, hit pull ups off the dribble, or break a guy down from that far out.
His quick first step that gets him to the rim with one dribble now takes 2 or 3 dribbles. Then he has to contend with a collapsing defense and we rely on him to have enough body control to avoid fouls and pass to the right guy.
The guys you have named that had success by avoiding long 2s are all primary ball handlers, Davis is not that.
Posted on 11/4/13 at 11:02 am to 42
quote:
defenses as a whole will `give' you those shots. So, you have to take them at some rate or the defense will choke down your make-rate on your more efficient shots, eroding their yield.
with a proper offense you don't need to do this, especially if you have a passer on the elbow and a driver
besides, just picture it
a defender closing in on a 20 footer is going to still close in on a 23 footer. if that's your "good" shot that they WILL defend, you're talking about a very slight difference in terms of defensive spacing. it's essentially the same shot that will gain the same respect, so i just don't see how this changing anything. that's my whole point
off the P/R it makes sense b/c you can pick/pop (assuming you have a good driver, which we have 3 of)
other than that, the spacing difference for a defender is about 0 and if they respect your long2, they'll respect your 3s slightly behind the long2
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News