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re: ESPN Trade grade... D?
Posted on 6/27/13 at 11:03 pm to OBUDan
Posted on 6/27/13 at 11:03 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Yeah, which is why we should have traded last year's no. 1 pick for Al Jefferson.
AD was as close as you were going to get to a sure thing. This year's draft has no one who equals that talent level. So you send it off for a 23 year old proven all star. Sounds good to me.
0
Posted on 6/28/13 at 1:39 am to Macintosh504
quote:
who the frick is Kevin Pelton?
Not just ESPN's Hollinger replacement. He's a stats GURU. Predicted Rivers would have the worst season in NBA rookie history. Developed SCHOENE player rating system. One of the top minds in NBA basketball analytics right now. Very credible. Quickly written, not thought out article by him.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 2:29 am to MrWiseGuy
quote:
who the frick is Kevin Pelton?
one of the best nba writers on espn. I was surprised at the grade...guess he's not that high on Holiday.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 2:34 am to BayouBengal0505
quote:
That is what I am saying... I do not understand how a proven all star vs a project and we get the bad end of the deal?
Joke?
Because everyone is ignoring the fact that it isn't a straight up trade: 2013 pick for Holiday. It's 2 first rounders.
I'm glad Jrue is coming here, but I don't like it at the expense of two first rounders.
If we get to keep the pick at the end of the day, then good on us. I just don't like the risk associated with this deal.
This post was edited on 6/28/13 at 2:35 am
Posted on 6/28/13 at 2:38 am to dcrews
People are overrating the draft before those guys get to college. There's a good chance that picks 6-15 will be shitty.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 2:40 am to dcrews
you think this deal is a risk? We could have easily ended up paying the same amount of $ we got jrue for, for a poor man's larry sanders and an evan turner clone... Next year is not exciting at all outside of top 5 and our pick is top 5 protected...
We've got a proven top 10 nba PG who just turned 23. He is completely healthy. The opposite of a risk.
We've got a proven top 10 nba PG who just turned 23. He is completely healthy. The opposite of a risk.
This post was edited on 6/28/13 at 2:41 am
Posted on 6/28/13 at 3:01 am to MrBlue105
Exactly the big guys next year are Randle, Parker, Wiggins and maybe Gordon and one of the Harrison twins depending on how they do in college. Don't forget Shabazz was being touted as a can't miss prospect before he came to college, and look how that turned out.
There have never been six franchise changing players in one draft in NBA history, and it won't happen next year
There have never been six franchise changing players in one draft in NBA history, and it won't happen next year
Posted on 6/28/13 at 4:34 am to Macintosh504
Well Christ this is hilarious. Gotta love ESPN saying a shot blocker with bad knees and an unproven player in next years "stacked" draft is better than a near top 5 PG
Posted on 6/28/13 at 4:53 am to WhoDatPelican596
frick em.......frick em alll
Posted on 6/28/13 at 7:12 am to BayouBengal0505
The article assumes (and neither we nor Pelton know whether Noel comes back from his surgery and becomes a star . . . it's a real possibility but an unknown). Now, true, we could have used our pick last night to take a guard and keep the 2014 pick, but instead we got someone who will be an immediate contributor.
Which leads to the next point, this franchise will not tolerate another ultra-shitty season in 2013-14. People can argue "tanking", building even slower for the long term, whatever . . . but this team (Benson, to Dell, to Monty, to the fans) want and for practical reasons truly need to see substantial improvement in the win-loss column.
Pelton's salary critique, it seems, also assumes no other moves on the part of the team that free up space. I think Demps and Co. will have more flexibility than we think with future moves.
Finally, I don't completely buy into his "value" argument that requires assumptions regarding two first round picks that are, at this point, pretty speculative.
It's perfectly reasonable to be uncomfortable with the trade, but it's ridiculous to say it's bad or dumb move. It was a solid deal for the Pelicans.
Which leads to the next point, this franchise will not tolerate another ultra-shitty season in 2013-14. People can argue "tanking", building even slower for the long term, whatever . . . but this team (Benson, to Dell, to Monty, to the fans) want and for practical reasons truly need to see substantial improvement in the win-loss column.
Pelton's salary critique, it seems, also assumes no other moves on the part of the team that free up space. I think Demps and Co. will have more flexibility than we think with future moves.
Finally, I don't completely buy into his "value" argument that requires assumptions regarding two first round picks that are, at this point, pretty speculative.
It's perfectly reasonable to be uncomfortable with the trade, but it's ridiculous to say it's bad or dumb move. It was a solid deal for the Pelicans.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 7:39 am to VOR
Whatev. I've seen many opinions that we got the best of the deal. Now if we end up giving up #4 or 5 next year thats different. Kinda think this could make Gordon happy too, if he ever got his mind right... well you know.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 7:59 am to HeadCoach
No one else is worried that 5 teams including the Suns passed on what most people said would be the best player in the draft? Obviously they weren't convinced on his knee or maybe his ability... You guys are valuing draft picks too much. Everyone touts OKC. How many times has this been successful in the league?
Look at the stagnant teams in the lottery every year. Jrue is a hard nosed defender. A fringe star top tier PG with very nice size. I get people are scared of giving the first round next year but this isn't the NFL. The rate of a player actually being solid after the top 5 is very low. And we are top 5 protected.
We would have had to pay Jrue or anyone else 14mil a year to come here and play. First year in a 4 year 44 mil contract for a fringe star and top tier PG is a steal for this team.
Look at the stagnant teams in the lottery every year. Jrue is a hard nosed defender. A fringe star top tier PG with very nice size. I get people are scared of giving the first round next year but this isn't the NFL. The rate of a player actually being solid after the top 5 is very low. And we are top 5 protected.
We would have had to pay Jrue or anyone else 14mil a year to come here and play. First year in a 4 year 44 mil contract for a fringe star and top tier PG is a steal for this team.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:05 am to BarbaricPelican
quote:
No one else is worried that 5 teams including the Suns passed on what most people said would be the best player in the draft?
This.
This article essentially sees us sucking again and trying to get a top 5 pick. Hopefully those days are long gone and we won't be like the bobcats and cavs every year hoping to get a top 3 pick. I love this move. We will have money for a huge FA next year.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:07 am to BarbaricPelican
quote:
We would have had to pay Jrue or anyone else 14mil a year to come here and play. First year in a 4 year 44 mil contract for a fringe star and top tier PG is a steal for this team.
Another reason that Pelton's numbers don't make much of an argument when you're dealing with reality.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:09 am to dcrews
quote:
It's 2 first rounders.
I'm glad Jrue is coming here, but I don't like it at the expense of two first rounders.
2 "1st rounders" in the NBA only means so much
one was not a top 5 pick in a shite draft. it's not really worth much. the other likely will be in the 10-15 range. that means it also is not valuable at all
quote:
I just don't like the risk associated with this deal.
the risk of keping noel and gambling that we have a great player fall to us outside of hte top 5 is much, much riskier
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:10 am to hendersonshands
quote:
People are overrating the draft before those guys get to college
also, since it's draft night, people in general will overrate the draft itself to make it feel more important
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:12 am to VOR
quote:
Another reason that Pelton's numbers don't make much of an argument when you're dealing with reality.
yes his reasonable contract is worth a great deal, which is why i originally lol'd at his comments
ooooooh, we save $5M? we can buy a mid-level FA with that!!!
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:33 am to SlowFlowPro
In today's BSS podcast Ryan Schwan compiled a list of the #6 and #10 picks since 2003 for perspective on what the team potentially gave up.
2003 Chris Kaman, Jarvis Hayes
2004 Josh Childress, Luke Jackson
2005 Martell Webster, Andrew Bynum
2006 Brandon Roy, Mouhamed Sene
2007 Yi Jianlian, Spencer Hawes
2008 Danilo Gallinari, Brook Lopez
2009 Johnny Flynn, Brandon Jennings
2010 Ekpe Udoh, Paul George
2011 Jan Vesley, Jimmer Fridette
2012 Damian Lillard, Austin Rivers
I don't want to completely dismiss both picks because what if you get healthy Brandon Roy and Paul George, or Lillard and a healthy Bynum? But that's 4/20 or 20% odds, and that's arbitrarily mixing and matching. So there's a 20% chance you could have done better for yourself long term by being kind of bad another year. There's an 80% chance you piss off the fans and maybe even get a highly regarded coach and a GM that can work this kind of trade fired.
2003 Chris Kaman, Jarvis Hayes
2004 Josh Childress, Luke Jackson
2005 Martell Webster, Andrew Bynum
2006 Brandon Roy, Mouhamed Sene
2007 Yi Jianlian, Spencer Hawes
2008 Danilo Gallinari, Brook Lopez
2009 Johnny Flynn, Brandon Jennings
2010 Ekpe Udoh, Paul George
2011 Jan Vesley, Jimmer Fridette
2012 Damian Lillard, Austin Rivers
I don't want to completely dismiss both picks because what if you get healthy Brandon Roy and Paul George, or Lillard and a healthy Bynum? But that's 4/20 or 20% odds, and that's arbitrarily mixing and matching. So there's a 20% chance you could have done better for yourself long term by being kind of bad another year. There's an 80% chance you piss off the fans and maybe even get a highly regarded coach and a GM that can work this kind of trade fired.
Posted on 6/28/13 at 8:49 am to TigerinATL
yeah i think there is a lot of "NFL" style analysis going on. i don't mean that in a mean way or anything
1st round picks in the NBA aren't worth nearly the same thing. if you want a comparison, the first 6-7 picks are kind of like the NFL first round. half of those guys will suck, typically
people have become enamoured with "building like OKC" but they caught lightning in a bottle
1st round picks in the NBA aren't worth nearly the same thing. if you want a comparison, the first 6-7 picks are kind of like the NFL first round. half of those guys will suck, typically
people have become enamoured with "building like OKC" but they caught lightning in a bottle
Posted on 6/28/13 at 9:38 am to VOR
Look it is the NBA draft...typically if you can somehow turn a pick into a young player that you KNOW can play in the league then you do it
How many guys in the Top 10 of this year's draft will be an all-star at 23? That's exactly what a draft pick is supposed to bring you - so well done Pels IMO
How many guys in the Top 10 of this year's draft will be an all-star at 23? That's exactly what a draft pick is supposed to bring you - so well done Pels IMO
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