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Message
re: Official "Inception" Thread (***SPOILERS***)
Posted on 8/7/10 at 11:48 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 8/7/10 at 11:48 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Like Saito just happening to come to Cobb's rescue in that African country
If he is certainly powerful enough to pull off Cobb getting off with a phone call, he is powerful enough to keep tabs on Cobb just like he claimed.
He demonstrated similar prowess early in the film when he intercepted the would-be traitor to the team early in the film.
So I guess it can go both ways.
quote:
Cillian Murphy not knowing what his chief competitor looks like.
How do you know he didn't?
In his shoes, I would simply ignore my "chief competitor" because there really isn't anything to be said.
Not to mention how withdrawn he was thanks to the death of his father.
1
Posted on 8/7/10 at 2:59 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Could Saito really give him a full pardon in real life? Thats not the way society works
Individuals with monetary and political dominance who complicity intervene to suspend legality in an effort to benefit specific people?
No, you're right, that definitely isn't how the real world operates...
Posted on 8/7/10 at 11:06 pm to Volvagia
quote:
If he is certainly powerful enough to pull off Cobb getting off with a phone call, he is powerful enough to keep tabs on Cobb just like he claimed.
He demonstrated similar prowess early in the film when he intercepted the would-be traitor to the team early in the film.
So I guess it can go both ways.
The evidence you just provided makes me even more confident it all was a dream.
quote:
How do you know he didn't?
In his shoes, I would simply ignore my "chief competitor" because there really isn't anything to be said.
Not to mention how withdrawn he was thanks to the death of his father.
He saw him in the hotel level of the dream. I'm pretty sure he would have pointed him out at that point, since he was thinking someone was there to extract information from his mind. Who would want to extract information more than his chief competitor?
Posted on 8/7/10 at 11:07 pm to Cs
quote:
ndividuals with monetary and political dominance who complicity intervene to suspend legality in an effort to benefit specific people?
No, you're right, that definitely isn't how the real world operates...
Aren't the cops already searching for him? Yeah I can buy that Saito can bribe a judge or an official, but just entering the country without any issues? It should be a little more complicated than that.
Posted on 8/8/10 at 1:45 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:
I wanted a better explanation why the highly intelligent Cobb character would not simply tell police after his wife's suicide that before she jumped, she admitted to staging a ransacked apartment, lined up 3 letters with psychiatrists stating she was sane (a clear sign of uncertainty over her own sanity)
Wait, why do you think that she is the one who lined up the psychiatrists?
I assumed that he was the one who did so because he thought that she needed help.
I think you're nitpicking about a really small detail here. If you didn't like the movie I'm ok with that. But I don't think this is really a legit gripe.
Posted on 8/8/10 at 1:53 pm to Powerman
I don't think it is stated in the film that either of them had anything to do with the shrinks.
I thought he said that at trial 3 of them declared her sane.
They could have easily been 3 hand picked expert witnesses by the DA who had no prior experience with either of the Cobbs.
On a unrelated note, I stumbled across this and found it humorous:
LINK
I thought he said that at trial 3 of them declared her sane.
They could have easily been 3 hand picked expert witnesses by the DA who had no prior experience with either of the Cobbs.
On a unrelated note, I stumbled across this and found it humorous:
LINK
Posted on 8/8/10 at 1:58 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I'm pretty sure he would have pointed him out at that point, since he was thinking someone was there to extract information from his mind.
Guess I would need to see it again to be sure....if memory serves it was when he walked into the hotel suite?
Of course, on the flip side, he had already bought into the story that the folks he was interacting with were "friends," projections of his own mind. He was already convinced because his interpretation of the actions of his security projections was made to be evidence of the "bad guys."
Even if he had made the connection in a dream state that this was his competitor (he did seem a bit disconcerted during this stage), he might have just attributed it to being a projection of his mind. And it isn't like there was a huge window of time between that stage and putting him under.
This post was edited on 8/8/10 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 8/9/10 at 1:03 am to Tiger JJ
just wanted to say ive been reading this thread for a while now..im 20-something pages in, and i thank all of you guys for your insight and analysis..
-im still in limbo(lol) about my theory on what is going on, but if a gun were held to my head i would(at this point)-(that could change after i watch the film 3 or 4 times) go with the ellen page-sent by the prof.theory/entire thing/ending is a dream theory..i find the article that talks about jungian dream theory and the characters names/roles pretty interesting as well...
in the commment section on the bottom of one of those articles linked , there was a guy who translated the lyrics of the french song(used during the kick) and several other times in the film(including the ending)-pretty cool to read those...
this is totally random, but the lyrics to this incubus song(nowhere fast) kept replaying in my head during the movie..it kind of sums up how im feeling about the meaning, etc...it also kinda parallels the movie in some ways...
will i ever get to where im going?
if i do, will i know when i'm there?
if the wind blew me in the right direction
would i even care?
i would
full song lyric:
Will I ever get to where I'm going?
Will I ever follow through with what I had planned.
I guess it's possible that I have been a bit distracted and the directions for me are a lot less in demand.
Will I ever get to where I'm going?
If I do, will I know when I am there?
If the wind blew me in the right direction would I even care?
I would.
I take a look around;
it's evident the scene has changed.
And there are times when I feel improved upon the past.
Then there are times when I can't seem to understand at all
and yes it seems as though I'm going nowhere...
really fricking fast.
-im still in limbo(lol) about my theory on what is going on, but if a gun were held to my head i would(at this point)-(that could change after i watch the film 3 or 4 times) go with the ellen page-sent by the prof.theory/entire thing/ending is a dream theory..i find the article that talks about jungian dream theory and the characters names/roles pretty interesting as well...
in the commment section on the bottom of one of those articles linked , there was a guy who translated the lyrics of the french song(used during the kick) and several other times in the film(including the ending)-pretty cool to read those...
this is totally random, but the lyrics to this incubus song(nowhere fast) kept replaying in my head during the movie..it kind of sums up how im feeling about the meaning, etc...it also kinda parallels the movie in some ways...
will i ever get to where im going?
if i do, will i know when i'm there?
if the wind blew me in the right direction
would i even care?
i would
full song lyric:
Will I ever get to where I'm going?
Will I ever follow through with what I had planned.
I guess it's possible that I have been a bit distracted and the directions for me are a lot less in demand.
Will I ever get to where I'm going?
If I do, will I know when I am there?
If the wind blew me in the right direction would I even care?
I would.
I take a look around;
it's evident the scene has changed.
And there are times when I feel improved upon the past.
Then there are times when I can't seem to understand at all
and yes it seems as though I'm going nowhere...
really fricking fast.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 1:11 am to chowds4
I finally got around to seeing this tonight, awesome movie. I'm torn on exactly what happened as well, but I'm leaning towards reality being true reality and Ellen Page working for Michael Caine. Either that or everything was basically as it appeared and the ending was intentionally ambiguous and left open to interpretation by the viewer.
ETA: I really can't get on board with the entire thing being a dream at all.
ETA: I really can't get on board with the entire thing being a dream at all.
This post was edited on 8/9/10 at 1:12 am
Posted on 8/9/10 at 8:20 am to TulaneTigerFan
ah, this movie was so badass.
I tend to think the whole thing (or at least the part including the ending) was a dream. Dream or not, I think that Cobb "letting go" of his wife at the end was so cathartic that he was finally able to see the face of his children.
Ultimately, this movie says to me that reality vs dream doesn't even matter. Wherever a person is at any moment and whatever they are experiencing is their reality. They talk about how horrible limbo is and even though it technically isn't "real," the people who are there feel the suffering regardless.
I need to see this again, though, because I haven't been able to put together what all of the stuff in the beginning means
I tend to think the whole thing (or at least the part including the ending) was a dream. Dream or not, I think that Cobb "letting go" of his wife at the end was so cathartic that he was finally able to see the face of his children.
Ultimately, this movie says to me that reality vs dream doesn't even matter. Wherever a person is at any moment and whatever they are experiencing is their reality. They talk about how horrible limbo is and even though it technically isn't "real," the people who are there feel the suffering regardless.
I need to see this again, though, because I haven't been able to put together what all of the stuff in the beginning means
Posted on 8/9/10 at 8:51 am to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
ETA: I really can't get on board with the entire thing being a dream at all.
+1
It seems hard to imagine Cobb or someone can envision an entire world.
But the nagging thought is that the shot at the end wasn't to throw in ambiguity at all. No, it did not fall on film, but it had already wobbled (which it does not do in the dream), and the duration of the spin was not notably longer than we have already seen it spin before falling. So basically there is zero evidence that the film ending mid spin is indicative of the world of being a dream.
So I think the sequence was more rooted on symbolism, emphasizing how Cobb was both walking away from the world of blurring reality and dreams and all of his concerns and guilt that have tormented him for the past 2 years. He has reconciled with himself after the conversation with Mal's projection in limbo.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 9:01 am to Volvagia
quote:
But the nagging thought is that the shot at the end wasn't to throw in ambiguity at all. No, it did not fall on film, but it had already wobbled (which it does not do in the dream), and the duration of the spin was not notably longer than we have already seen it spin before falling. So basically there is zero evidence that the film ending mid spin is indicative of the world of being a dream.
To be honest, I think that even if this shot wasn't in it, I'd still be a subscriber to everything being a dream. I hardly think that is good evidence to proving it was a dream, since it could have easily toppled after it went to black. Cobb's world is one of too many coincidences and things that revolve around him. Even if Cobb put that thought in Mal's mind to wake up, she was still correct that they weren't fully awakened when they got out of limbo the first time. Mal then woke up when she "killed herself", while Cobb remained in the dream world. The Mal that currently sabotages Cobb's missions is merely part of his subconscious.
Also Cobb can no longer dream unless he hooks up to the extraction machine. I think this proves he is still in a dream and can only perceive a dream if he goes deeper within the dream world.
Finally as a poster pointed out earlier, the totem was never actually Cobb's but it was Mal's. They made a big deal in that it had to be their's and no one else could touch it, therefore Cobb's totem may have never been reliable in the first place.
I could certainly be wrong, but this is what I took from the film at least.
This post was edited on 8/9/10 at 9:07 am
Posted on 8/9/10 at 9:23 am to OMLandshark
quote:
To be honest, I think that even if this shot wasn't in it, I'd still be a subscriber to everything being a dream. I hardly think that is good evidence to proving it was a dream, since it could have easily toppled after it went to black.
Fair enough. Just seemed that the whole dream/not dream debate started with that shot, and I didn't think it was warranted.
Not saying that I am right and it is definitely not a dream and all of you "dreamers" are fricking morons.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 9:28 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Also Cobb can no longer dream unless he hooks up to the extraction machine. I think this proves he is still in a dream and can only perceive a dream if he goes deeper within the dream world.
FWIW, the same holds true of ANYONE who uses it a lot. It was part of the reason why those folks come to that underground dream place. So you can easily argue that is just how the machine is as saying that it is a reveal that Cobb created the world that way to explain why he can no longer dream.
You can easily spin a lot of elements into "proof" that it was a dream.
quote:
Finally as a poster pointed out earlier, the totem was never actually Cobb's but it was Mal's. They made a big deal in that it had to be their's and no one else could touch it, therefore Cobb's totem may have never been reliable in the first place.
This is true, and something I thought of as well.
The reason that no one is supposed to touch totems is that only you are supposed to know the qualities of the totem, so no one else can recreate them in a dream. (This also means that it really isn't a breach for Cobb to be using his dead wife's totem)
But EVERYONE seemed to know that the trick behind the top totem was that it kept spinning in a dream. Of course, that is only a part of it, the weight is another big part.
So I dunno.
This post was edited on 8/9/10 at 9:33 am
Posted on 8/9/10 at 9:34 am to Volvagia
quote:
You can easily spin a lot of elements into "proof" that it was a dream.
Agreed. Pretty much the entire interpretation of this film has to do with your perspective. I don't think anyone can prove one way or the other, but I'm just leaning towards the "all a dream" aspect.
Posted on 8/12/10 at 10:26 am to OMLandshark
OK! So I've finally seen Inception!! Who wants to touch me!!??
:crickets:
I SAID: WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME!!??
...
Oh yeah. I'm like the last person to finally get around to seeing this movie.
Anyway, mark me down as one who falls in line w/ the chorus saying this movie was awesome in every conceivable way and shockingly managed to deliver on its seemingly impossible hype.
I don't think it was necessarily as difficult to follow as the first wave of viewers made it seem. I think that if you went into the movie w/ your guard up knowing that you had to concentrate, it actually wasn't that tough to follow. I think the first wave who went in maybe underestimated the movie and had an "Oh shite" moment, at some point mid-way through when they realized they were lost. (Not talking about people from this site, just movie-goers in general).
I really have no theories or interpretations to add that haven't already been said by others in this thread so I'll just say it was extremely thought-provoking and kept me up at night thinking about the possibilities of what really happened. I read through most of this thread and b/c I was absolutely enthralled w/ reading/hearing what other people thought and how to try to draw some sort of conclusion. In the end, what is in the last post conveniently sums up my position:
:crickets:
I SAID: WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME!!??
...
Oh yeah. I'm like the last person to finally get around to seeing this movie.
Anyway, mark me down as one who falls in line w/ the chorus saying this movie was awesome in every conceivable way and shockingly managed to deliver on its seemingly impossible hype.
I don't think it was necessarily as difficult to follow as the first wave of viewers made it seem. I think that if you went into the movie w/ your guard up knowing that you had to concentrate, it actually wasn't that tough to follow. I think the first wave who went in maybe underestimated the movie and had an "Oh shite" moment, at some point mid-way through when they realized they were lost. (Not talking about people from this site, just movie-goers in general).
I really have no theories or interpretations to add that haven't already been said by others in this thread so I'll just say it was extremely thought-provoking and kept me up at night thinking about the possibilities of what really happened. I read through most of this thread and b/c I was absolutely enthralled w/ reading/hearing what other people thought and how to try to draw some sort of conclusion. In the end, what is in the last post conveniently sums up my position:
quote:
You can easily spin a lot of elements into "proof" that it was a dream.
quote:
Pretty much the entire interpretation of this film has to do with your perspective. I don't think anyone can prove one way or the other, but I'm just leaning towards the "all a dream" aspect.
This post was edited on 8/12/10 at 11:09 am
Posted on 8/12/10 at 2:30 pm to Jamohn
Posted on 8/12/10 at 7:12 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Posted on 8/12/10 at 10:36 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 8/14/10 at 9:22 pm to Dan In Real Life
....way way way TOOOO LONG ! ... an' my brain iz'a hurtin' .. 
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