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New research into people in a vegetative state

Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:23 am
Posted by Eurocat
Member since Apr 2004
17094 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:23 am
The New York Times
www.nytimes.com

LINK

Sun, Apr 12 at 7:46 AM

But first, a study found that some people in vegetative states may have more awareness than we thought.

Let’s say something bad happens — a crash, a fall, a stroke, an overdose. Your brain absorbs a violent shock or a period without oxygen. But your heart still beats and your lungs still heave. Now you’re unconscious in the hospital, unable to respond when your spouse calls your name or your doctor prods you with a reflex hammer.

For years, these patients were said to be in a “persistent vegetative state”: bodies without minds. They idle, mostly in care centers and nursing homes, with little attention. But new research shows that many such patients — tens of thousands of Americans — may actually be hearing and thinking. That is the (somewhat horrifying) subject of Katie Engelhart’s new article for The Times Magazine. I asked her about it.

Adam: Now we know that some people declared vegetative can actually perceive and understand things around them. How many people are we talking about?

Katie: Nobody is counting. By some estimates, around 50,000 Americans are in a chronic vegetative state, meaning that they are technically awake, but have no awareness of what is going on around them. Another 200,000 to 400,000 are in a “minimally conscious state,” with fleeting periods of awareness. Research suggests that about a quarter of all these patients are able to follow commands like, “Imagine opening and closing your hand.”

How did researchers figure out that this set of patients was conscious?

Back in 2006, a neuroscientist at Cambridge University put a 23-year-old woman, who had been diagnosed as being in a vegetative state, into an fMRI scanner and asked her to “imagine playing tennis.” And she did! The area that controls motor planning in her brain lit up in just the same way that a healthy person’s brain would. The phenomenon was widely replicated.

The scary thing is that it doesn’t seem like there’s any way for ordinary patients to get tested for this awareness.

Exactly. Researchers have been able to find covertly conscious patients for 20 years, but the testing is almost exclusively done through research trials. I interviewed many people whose loved ones had been diagnosed as being in a vegetative state — and whose doctors never even raised the possibility of covert consciousness. But family members are doing their own research, and they want access to the cutting-edge science.
Posted by CatfishJohn
Member since Jun 2020
19897 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:25 am to
Terrifying.

Pull my plug.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
33269 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:25 am to
Posted by DustyDinkleman
Here
Member since Feb 2012
19910 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:26 am to
Imagine being conscious in a coma and you constantly get crop dusted by every doctor, nurse, and loved ones in your family.

What disappointment
Posted by PerplenGold
TX
Member since Nov 2021
2259 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:26 am to
quote:

vegetative state


new name for california
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
61514 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:42 am to
quote:

people in a vegetative state


I am a Meatatarian, I do not eat fruits or vegetables.
Posted by toesinthesand
One Particular Harbour
Member since Dec 2011
228 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:56 am to
Posted by UnluckyTiger
Member since Sep 2003
42862 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 7:58 am to
That’s terrifying but I mean have they not asked folks that got out of a vegetative state what they could see, hear, feel before?

My dad was in the ICU for “Covid” for a few months and doesn’t really remember anything as he was in as much of a vegetative state as you can be. While intubated he could wake up and move his eyes but he didn’t even regonize me when I flew up to see him at first. The nurses at the hospital were basically urging me to be ready to pull the plug but I refused and by the 4th time basically told the main nurse to frick off. Absolute witch that woman was and I’m glad I never met her in person. Told her I wanted a real doctors opinion. Anyway, long story short he ended up making a miraculous recovery and thanks me every couple of months for believing in his recovery. They said best case is he would be in a nursing home for the rest of his life, but he defied all odds and is living on his own again. I’m not sure why I thought to share all of that but if anyone is ever in that situation with a loved one, I’d tell you just to pray and believe.
This post was edited on 4/12/26 at 8:05 am
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
31473 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:00 am to
If so it sounds like a fate worse than death
Posted by Quatre Pot
Member since Jan 2015
1805 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:02 am to
My father in law had a massive stroke. We were told that he was unresponsive and in a vegetative state. That he couldn’t communicate with us. Turns out he was able to reconcile with his kids, answer direct questions, and even, on the day before he finally passed, express joy when I told him my son hit his first home run.
Point is- he was definitely there
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
74348 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:04 am to
Many of our local Poli-boarders are the inverse of these types of people: brain dead but sadly capable of day-to-day life activities (unfortunately including posting on TD).

Kinda makes you wonder if we could match individuals from each of the two types together and get one functioning person out of the two individuals.
This post was edited on 4/12/26 at 8:06 am
Posted by GeauxTigers123
Member since Feb 2007
3582 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:08 am to
Canada would just put them down
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
74348 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:12 am to
quote:

If so it sounds like a fate worse than death
A subject you can speak to here with familiarity….

Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
50190 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:22 am to
I always tell my wife not to pull the plug on me unless multiple doctors are adamant that there’s absolutely no hope whatsoever. I’m a firm believer that there’s always room for a miracle, but this is terrifying. Imagine hearing the conversation between the doctors and your spouse about pulling the plug, thinking there’s no hope, and you’re trying your best to say something to stop them.
Posted by tigerskin
Member since Nov 2004
46423 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:22 am to
Pull the plug
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
138877 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:26 am to
quote:

Terrifying.

Pull my plug.


This
Posted by tigerskin
Member since Nov 2004
46423 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:26 am to
quote:

Imagine hearing the conversation between the doctors and your spouse about pulling the plug, thinking there’s no hope, and you’re trying your best to say something to stop them.


Huh? I would be screaming my best to encourage them to pull it. You want to just lay around knowing you are still basically a vegetable?

Scanned the article and after all that, it sounds like the dude is just still laying there and she is still trying to convince herself of something that isn't going to happen.


If I missed something in the quick scan, let me know
This post was edited on 4/12/26 at 8:35 am
Posted by dyslexiateechur
Louisiana
Member since Jan 2009
36354 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:40 am to
I told my husband to make sure to play good audiobooks if I go into a coma.
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
74348 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 8:55 am to
quote:

I told my husband to make sure to play good audiobooks if I go into a coma.
The Unabridged Comprehensive History of 19th Century English Tool and Die Apparatus Focused On Quality Control and Metallurgy: A Series of 117 Individual Two to Three Hour Sessions
Posted by ragincajun03
Member since Nov 2007
28986 posts
Posted on 4/12/26 at 9:01 am to
quote:

I’m not sure why I thought to share all of that


Because it matters and could possibly help someone else in the future.

Thank you for sharing.
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