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Message
Inflation vs Interest rates
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:39 am
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:39 am
I am no economist, so I am curious. We have been keeping interest rates high to get inflation under control. Inflation is still not under control, but now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings because of the latest jobs report? Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:40 am to FreddieMac
quote:
let inflation run amuck again?
Yikes. That’s a scary scenario. If this does indeed happen, I would expect to see a lot of foreclosure on properties and more acute pullbacks on discretionary spending.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:14 pm to FreddieMac
Nobody knows anything. They’re throwing shite at the wall and hoping it sticks.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:25 pm to FreddieMac
quote:No.
Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:30 pm to FreddieMac
Maybe. Look up the definition of “stagflation”, and learn how to profit from it
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:58 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
I am no economist, so I am curious. We have been keeping interest rates high to get inflation under control. Inflation is still not under control, but now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings because of the latest jobs report? Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
I posted this last month, but there's an argument that higher rates is what is stimulative in and of itself.
LINK
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:13 pm to Lgrnwd
quote:
Maybe. Look up the definition of “stagflation”, and learn how to profit from it
Why don’t you tell us how?
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:21 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings
I really doubt this.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:07 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
Inflation is still not under control, but now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings because of the latest jobs report?
Markets also expected 5 cuts this year. Markets also didn't expect JPow to stick with rate hikes.
What the market expects regarding rates isn't always reality. We're far more likely to get a .25 cut in September than anything else. Speculating beyond that is fairly useless as future cuts are going to depend heavily on future data.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 6:20 pm to FreddieMac
rates are typically cut during a downturn to revive the economy
you don't just cut rates because they are "high"
you don't just cut rates because they are "high"
Posted on 8/6/24 at 9:03 pm to FreddieMac
raising interest rates is nothing but card tricks. the only thing that improves purchasing power is removing "money" from circulation. they may or may not do that but they will never honestly say when they do. And likely never will.
anyone who disagrees with any of the above is an economics buffoon.
anyone who disagrees with any of the above is an economics buffoon.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 9:11 pm to FreddieMac
quote:Yes, if demand isn't squashed
Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:59 pm to FreddieMac
Lowering interest rates will have a psychological effect on consumers.
They’ll spend more.
Spending more adds to demand.
Increased demand often leads to higher prices
They’ll spend more.
Spending more adds to demand.
Increased demand often leads to higher prices
Posted on 8/7/24 at 9:25 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
Interest rates are relative. There are times when 3% is restrictive to the economy and there are times when 3% rates would have poured gasoline on the economy.
By any traditional measures, a 5.25% Fed funds rate with sub 4% inflation is restrictive. (Notwithstanding the argument that higher rates themselves in this economy are actually inflationary)
Posted on 8/8/24 at 9:51 am to faraway
quote:
raising interest rates is nothing but card tricks. the only thing that improves purchasing power is removing "money" from circulation. they may or may not do that but they will never honestly say when they do. And likely never will.
correctaomundo ... the velocity of money causes inflation
That's where MMM theorists get it wrong, and where Keynsians get it right, IMO. MMM theorists believe you can simply print debt away in order to avoid the harsh consequences of Debt-to-GDP excesses.
Historical belief is that these Debt-to-GDP standards are accepted among western countries:
30% is considered comfortable
60% is a problem
90% is Critical
NATO's target for western financial systems is roughly 60% or less … spain, Italy, and france significantly exceed this standard
USA is currently above 106%, ... with Debt steadily increasing and GDP steadily declining. The budget already passed by Congress ($5T) will easily cause the US to surpass 120% Debt-to-GDP ratio
Once you exceed 90% a couple of things happen .... Debt is no longer effective because at this point you spend a dollar but gain less than a dollar increase in GDP. (Productivity does not increase correspondingly with expenses.)
Highest Debt-to-GDP ratios:
1. Venezuela 350%
2. Japan 266%
3. Sudan 259%
4. Greece 206%
T5. Italy and Lebanon 157%
Posted on 8/8/24 at 11:00 am to cadillacattack
quote:
and GDP steadily declining
GDP can only be considered declining if we're looking at the anomalous high from COVID as the starting point. Sure you can say we've declined from that point, but that's a bit like saying someone's income is lower the year after they won the Powerball than it was during the year they won the Powerball. Looking back to the GFC as a wider scope, GDP is actually a little higher.
The real issue with GDP is that it's been grown since 2021/2022 on the back of quickly increasing consumer debt and that debt is now starting to go delinquent. LINK Debt creation has been the engine of GDP growth since COVID, so as the ability to constant create more consumer debt decreases, so too will GDP. This will likely have a long-term impact as consumers who walk away from their debt (like mortgage holders did with their mortgages during the GFC) will have to move to more of a cash-use situation until they can rebuild their credit enough to get cards once again (meaning marginal spending will take a long time to recover).
Posted on 8/11/24 at 10:12 am to FreddieMac
Why do you think inflation is not under control? The numbers for this year are reasonable. Prices are high, but most of the damage was from previous few years since Covid.
A full point over next two meetings is just talking heads. Only thing I would expect is .25 in Sept. Data will drive decisions after that, and nothing is certain. I think the Fed is acting appropriately by changing slowly. Ditch to ditch is almost never warranted.
A full point over next two meetings is just talking heads. Only thing I would expect is .25 in Sept. Data will drive decisions after that, and nothing is certain. I think the Fed is acting appropriately by changing slowly. Ditch to ditch is almost never warranted.
Posted on 8/11/24 at 10:21 am to Bard
GDP can only be considered declining if we're looking at the anomalous high from COVID as the starting point. Sure you can say we've declined from that point, but that's a bit like saying someone's income is lower the year after they won the Powerball than it was during the year they won the Powerball. Looking back to the GFC as a wider scope, GDP is actually a little higher.
The real issue with GDP is that it's been grown since 2021/2022 on the back of quickly increasing consumer debt and that debt is now starting to go delinquent. LINK Debt creation has been the engine of GDP growth since COVID, so as the ability to constant create more consumer debt decreases, so too will GDP. This will likely have a long-term impact as consumers who walk away from their debt (like mortgage holders did with their mortgages during the GFC) will have to move to more of a cash-use situation until they can rebuild their credit enough to get cards once again (meaning marginal spending will take a long time to recover).
__________
Spot on.
Do you know if aggregate reporting for debt includes balances that are paid down to zero? This was asked in another thread, but don't think it was answered. I know delinquencies is another data point, but that leaves this question unanswered. I wonder if data is skewed by the trend by many to put everything on cards for cash back, then pay the full balance monthly.
The real issue with GDP is that it's been grown since 2021/2022 on the back of quickly increasing consumer debt and that debt is now starting to go delinquent. LINK Debt creation has been the engine of GDP growth since COVID, so as the ability to constant create more consumer debt decreases, so too will GDP. This will likely have a long-term impact as consumers who walk away from their debt (like mortgage holders did with their mortgages during the GFC) will have to move to more of a cash-use situation until they can rebuild their credit enough to get cards once again (meaning marginal spending will take a long time to recover).
__________
Spot on.
Do you know if aggregate reporting for debt includes balances that are paid down to zero? This was asked in another thread, but don't think it was answered. I know delinquencies is another data point, but that leaves this question unanswered. I wonder if data is skewed by the trend by many to put everything on cards for cash back, then pay the full balance monthly.
Posted on 8/11/24 at 10:36 pm to TigerTatorTots
Well I can tell you that for at least in Houston, demand is no where near squashed.
The only thing I have seen where supply has caught up is vehicles. Housing and discretional spending are still hot. Restaurants, bars, shopping, all still very busy.
The only thing I have seen where supply has caught up is vehicles. Housing and discretional spending are still hot. Restaurants, bars, shopping, all still very busy.
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