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Inflation vs Interest rates

Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:39 am
Posted by FreddieMac
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2010
24837 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:39 am
I am no economist, so I am curious. We have been keeping interest rates high to get inflation under control. Inflation is still not under control, but now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings because of the latest jobs report? Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
Posted by Paul Allen
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
77735 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 11:40 am to
quote:

let inflation run amuck again?


Yikes. That’s a scary scenario. If this does indeed happen, I would expect to see a lot of foreclosure on properties and more acute pullbacks on discretionary spending.
Posted by TheWalrus
Land of the Hogs
Member since Dec 2012
46135 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:14 pm to
Nobody knows anything. They’re throwing shite at the wall and hoping it sticks.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
133528 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
No.
Posted by Lgrnwd
Member since Jan 2018
8329 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:30 pm to
Maybe. Look up the definition of “stagflation”, and learn how to profit from it
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
38365 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

I am no economist, so I am curious. We have been keeping interest rates high to get inflation under control. Inflation is still not under control, but now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings because of the latest jobs report? Would that action let inflation run amuck again?


I posted this last month, but there's an argument that higher rates is what is stimulative in and of itself.

LINK
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
15937 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

Maybe. Look up the definition of “stagflation”, and learn how to profit from it


Why don’t you tell us how?
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61271 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings


I really doubt this.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57856 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

Inflation is still not under control, but now the markets anticipate a full point cut over two meetings because of the latest jobs report?


Markets also expected 5 cuts this year. Markets also didn't expect JPow to stick with rate hikes.

What the market expects regarding rates isn't always reality. We're far more likely to get a .25 cut in September than anything else. Speculating beyond that is fairly useless as future cuts are going to depend heavily on future data.
Posted by DVinBR
Member since Jan 2013
15249 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 6:20 pm to
rates are typically cut during a downturn to revive the economy

you don't just cut rates because they are "high"
Posted by faraway
Member since Nov 2022
3552 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 9:03 pm to
raising interest rates is nothing but card tricks. the only thing that improves purchasing power is removing "money" from circulation. they may or may not do that but they will never honestly say when they do. And likely never will.

anyone who disagrees with any of the above is an economics buffoon.
Posted by TigerTatorTots
The Safeshore
Member since Jul 2009
82043 posts
Posted on 8/6/24 at 9:11 pm to
quote:

Would that action let inflation run amuck again?
Yes, if demand isn't squashed
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 9:12 pm
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
15937 posts
Posted on 8/7/24 at 3:59 pm to
Lowering interest rates will have a psychological effect on consumers.

They’ll spend more.

Spending more adds to demand.

Increased demand often leads to higher prices

Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91302 posts
Posted on 8/7/24 at 9:25 pm to
quote:

Would that action let inflation run amuck again?


Interest rates are relative. There are times when 3% is restrictive to the economy and there are times when 3% rates would have poured gasoline on the economy.

By any traditional measures, a 5.25% Fed funds rate with sub 4% inflation is restrictive. (Notwithstanding the argument that higher rates themselves in this economy are actually inflationary)
Posted by cadillacattack
the ATL
Member since May 2020
9553 posts
Posted on 8/8/24 at 9:51 am to
quote:

raising interest rates is nothing but card tricks. the only thing that improves purchasing power is removing "money" from circulation. they may or may not do that but they will never honestly say when they do. And likely never will.


correctaomundo ... the velocity of money causes inflation

That's where MMM theorists get it wrong, and where Keynsians get it right, IMO. MMM theorists believe you can simply print debt away in order to avoid the harsh consequences of Debt-to-GDP excesses.

Historical belief is that these Debt-to-GDP standards are accepted among western countries:
30% is considered comfortable
60% is a problem
90% is Critical

NATO's target for western financial systems is roughly 60% or less … spain, Italy, and france significantly exceed this standard

USA is currently above 106%, ... with Debt steadily increasing and GDP steadily declining. The budget already passed by Congress ($5T) will easily cause the US to surpass 120% Debt-to-GDP ratio

Once you exceed 90% a couple of things happen .... Debt is no longer effective because at this point you spend a dollar but gain less than a dollar increase in GDP. (Productivity does not increase correspondingly with expenses.)

Highest Debt-to-GDP ratios:
1. Venezuela 350%
2. Japan 266%
3. Sudan 259%
4. Greece 206%
T5. Italy and Lebanon 157%





Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57856 posts
Posted on 8/8/24 at 11:00 am to
quote:

and GDP steadily declining


GDP can only be considered declining if we're looking at the anomalous high from COVID as the starting point. Sure you can say we've declined from that point, but that's a bit like saying someone's income is lower the year after they won the Powerball than it was during the year they won the Powerball. Looking back to the GFC as a wider scope, GDP is actually a little higher.

The real issue with GDP is that it's been grown since 2021/2022 on the back of quickly increasing consumer debt and that debt is now starting to go delinquent. LINK Debt creation has been the engine of GDP growth since COVID, so as the ability to constant create more consumer debt decreases, so too will GDP. This will likely have a long-term impact as consumers who walk away from their debt (like mortgage holders did with their mortgages during the GFC) will have to move to more of a cash-use situation until they can rebuild their credit enough to get cards once again (meaning marginal spending will take a long time to recover).
Posted by KWL85
Member since Mar 2023
3091 posts
Posted on 8/11/24 at 10:12 am to
Why do you think inflation is not under control? The numbers for this year are reasonable. Prices are high, but most of the damage was from previous few years since Covid.

A full point over next two meetings is just talking heads. Only thing I would expect is .25 in Sept. Data will drive decisions after that, and nothing is certain. I think the Fed is acting appropriately by changing slowly. Ditch to ditch is almost never warranted.
Posted by KWL85
Member since Mar 2023
3091 posts
Posted on 8/11/24 at 10:21 am to
GDP can only be considered declining if we're looking at the anomalous high from COVID as the starting point. Sure you can say we've declined from that point, but that's a bit like saying someone's income is lower the year after they won the Powerball than it was during the year they won the Powerball. Looking back to the GFC as a wider scope, GDP is actually a little higher.

The real issue with GDP is that it's been grown since 2021/2022 on the back of quickly increasing consumer debt and that debt is now starting to go delinquent. LINK Debt creation has been the engine of GDP growth since COVID, so as the ability to constant create more consumer debt decreases, so too will GDP. This will likely have a long-term impact as consumers who walk away from their debt (like mortgage holders did with their mortgages during the GFC) will have to move to more of a cash-use situation until they can rebuild their credit enough to get cards once again (meaning marginal spending will take a long time to recover).
__________

Spot on.

Do you know if aggregate reporting for debt includes balances that are paid down to zero? This was asked in another thread, but don't think it was answered. I know delinquencies is another data point, but that leaves this question unanswered. I wonder if data is skewed by the trend by many to put everything on cards for cash back, then pay the full balance monthly.
Posted by RollTide4Ever
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
19621 posts
Posted on 8/11/24 at 9:36 pm to
Peter schiff called it.
Posted by GREENHEAD22
Member since Nov 2009
20525 posts
Posted on 8/11/24 at 10:36 pm to
Well I can tell you that for at least in Houston, demand is no where near squashed.

The only thing I have seen where supply has caught up is vehicles. Housing and discretional spending are still hot. Restaurants, bars, shopping, all still very busy.
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