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Dune 2 question (movie spoilers)
Posted on 6/2/24 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 6/2/24 at 4:26 pm
Spoiler thread for the movies but not the books.
Has Paul just been using the Fremen to become emperor this whole time?
He gave so much lip service to them about just wanting to be a freedom fighter and being willing to die for their cause to make Arakis a paradise and wanting to avoid a holy war blah blah.
Then immediately when he wins he forces the emperor to kiss his ring and sends the Fremen off to fight the noble houses and leave their homes.
He was acting like he was trying to become the emperor to help the Fremen, but in reality has he been helping the Fremen to become emperor?
Has Paul just been using the Fremen to become emperor this whole time?
He gave so much lip service to them about just wanting to be a freedom fighter and being willing to die for their cause to make Arakis a paradise and wanting to avoid a holy war blah blah.
Then immediately when he wins he forces the emperor to kiss his ring and sends the Fremen off to fight the noble houses and leave their homes.
He was acting like he was trying to become the emperor to help the Fremen, but in reality has he been helping the Fremen to become emperor?
This post was edited on 6/2/24 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 6/2/24 at 4:43 pm to Tiger1242
Maybe both? I think his motives are unclear, even to himself.
But we should remember that the Freemen are a warrior culture, so the goals of a) overthrowing your oppressor, and b) assuming power to control your interests, aren’t exactly at odds.
But we should remember that the Freemen are a warrior culture, so the goals of a) overthrowing your oppressor, and b) assuming power to control your interests, aren’t exactly at odds.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 4:55 pm to Tiger1242
It wasn't lip service. He legitimately didn't want to go south but was forced to by the Harkonnen attacks. Once he got there and took the water of life he became the Lisan Al Gaib and the Jihad became inevitable, either with him as the leader or with him as the martyr. At least as emperor he can limit the killing to a few billion.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 5:03 pm to Tiger1242
You may feel like Herbert was just making shite up as he went along. Not just you.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 5:24 pm to Tiger1242
He has the sight now and knows there’s only one way to free Arrakis. This is the path he’s going down.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 5:26 pm to Tiger1242
My belief is his goals evolved. It went from survival to revenge to realizing he could take power. At every point he was earnest in his desire, but as he gained experience in battle and gained reverence among the fremen he started to understand how powerful he could be and those desires changed.
I've never read the books so have no clue where it goes from here. That's just what I got from the movie.
I've never read the books so have no clue where it goes from here. That's just what I got from the movie.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 6:21 pm to Tiger1242
My biggest question about Dune 2 is how do the Fremen know how to fly spacecraft? They run out to them at the end and I kept picturing them getting up to the bridge and then just staring at the controls.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 6:57 pm to RougeDawg
I mean they’re pretty technologically advanced with all their gear and stuff they use to survive the desert. It’s not out of the question that some of them knew how to fly. Also they had some of Gunney’s people with them
Posted on 6/2/24 at 7:16 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Has Paul just been using the Fremen to become emperor this whole time?
IMO, his goals evolved and were also pushed by his mother... When she gets him to drink the water of life and see that he is a Haroken is when he goes full 180 god mode. "That is how we will survive" was his statement.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 8:38 pm to Lsut81
He’s a reluctant hero. He knows where the road goes if he assumes power. But he can’t stand by and watch the Harkonnens get away with destroying his family and the Fremen. The events of film unfold in such a way that he has no choice but to follow that path.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 8:48 pm to bluestem75
quote:
He’s a reluctant hero.
Meh, reluctant in the fact that this started because his family was attacked and mostly killed. But he is not reluctant to gain power once the opportunity arises. Hell he’s the one who brings up the idea of him marrying the emperors daughter and assuming power.
Posted on 6/2/24 at 9:09 pm to Tiger1242
He wanted revenge on the Harkonnens. The Fremen wanted their planet back. Mutual interests.
What Paul could not plan on (unless he finally saw this in the future when he took water of life) was the Emperor coming to Arrakis and putting all of his legions of Sardaukar into one nice little basket for Paul and the Fremen.
Scratch all that.
he kept on having dreams of the jihad the Fremen carried out in his name. There was only one way that could happen.
What Paul could not plan on (unless he finally saw this in the future when he took water of life) was the Emperor coming to Arrakis and putting all of his legions of Sardaukar into one nice little basket for Paul and the Fremen.
Scratch all that.
he kept on having dreams of the jihad the Fremen carried out in his name. There was only one way that could happen.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 8:56 am to Tiger1242
Have not seen the movie but the book makes it clear through Paul’s prescience that, if he follows the path laid out through prescience, the Fremen will commence jihad throughout the galaxy.
He could either fail and die on Dune or he could become Emperor but be a slave to what prescience says will happen.
He could either fail and die on Dune or he could become Emperor but be a slave to what prescience says will happen.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 9:46 am to bostitch
quote:Yep. He had visions of the jihad, but they were unclear and somewhat misinterpreted. He was afraid of that future, since he didn’t fully understand it, and wanted to avoid it.
He legitimately didn't want to go south but was forced to by the Harkonnen attacks. Once he got there and took the water of life he became the Lisan Al Gaib and the Jihad became inevitable
Once he went down the path and gained full prescience after drinking the water of life, he knew that overthrowing the emperor was the only way forward.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 12:35 pm to RougeDawg
quote:
My biggest question about Dune 2 is how do the Fremen know how to fly spacecraft? They run out to them at the end and I kept picturing them getting up to the bridge and then just staring at the controls.
I struggle with this in every sci fi movie. My only answer is that flying a spaceship is like driving a car to them. Even cave dwellers in Afghanistan can drive a car.
Unlike todays airplanes and spacecraft, I would imagine a super future advanced aircraft would have enough computer flight controls that it would be steer and hit gas or brake. Like a car.
Better question might be, are all the spacecraft so common that they know how to turn it on and off? Unlike a car, I find it hard to believe a spacecraft would be so simple as to push the clutch in, turn the key and hit the gas pedal. But who knows?
Posted on 6/3/24 at 12:43 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Hell he’s the one who brings up the idea of him marrying the emperors daughter
Do you blame him? I'd pick Florence Pugh over Zendaya every day of the week. Z's built like a 12 year old boy.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 1:33 pm to teke184
quote:
if he follows the path laid out through prescience, the Fremen will commence jihad throughout the galaxy.
He mentions this a few times in the movie... that if he goes down the path, it will lead to holy war.
I haven't read the books, so movies are my only reference.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 1:39 pm to Tiger1242
IMO he was acting in good faith until he drank the water of life and then a switch flipped where his intentions became evil.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 1:41 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
Do you blame him? I'd pick Florence Pugh over Zendaya every day of the week. Z's built like a 12 year old boy.
In the book it is known that he is not choosing the princess over Zendaya at all. Its the one change the movie made that pisses me off. Zandaya in the books is the one who tells him to marry the princess for the betterment of the galaxy and Paul tells the princess that they are wed in name only that Zandaya's character will be the only bed he shares.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 1:53 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
I think he still plans on the same relationships between Paul, Chani, and Irulan. Right after he drank the water, Paul told Jessica that he could see that Chani would come to understand. The only thing he didn’t do is warn Chani ahead of time to spell it out for the viewer.
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