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re: Dune 2 question (movie spoilers)
Posted on 6/3/24 at 2:01 pm to Esquire
Posted on 6/3/24 at 2:01 pm to Esquire
quote:
I think he still plans on the same relationships between Paul, Chani, and Irulan. Right after he drank the water, Paul told Jessica that he could see that Chani would come to understand. The only thing he didn’t do is warn Chani ahead of time to spell it out for the viewer.
The director said he purposefully changed Chani from the book character because he needed someone to show that Paul isn't pure hearted. I do agree that his intentions in the book aren't as clear as he made them in the movie but he should have chosen another character to show that. Stilgar was the skeptic in the book, why not keep him the skeptic but make him even more skeptical.
Instead, he made Stilgar a bumbling oaf and made Paul's greatest supporter (Chani) an independent she-warrior skeptic.
0
Posted on 6/3/24 at 2:29 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Meh, reluctant in the fact that this started because his family was attacked and mostly killed. But he is not reluctant to gain power once the opportunity arises. Hell he’s the one who brings up the idea of him marrying the emperors daughter and assuming power.
He only decides to do those thing after he is given the ability to see the future. He states there is only "one small path" he can take that will lead to freedom\victory for the fremen.
After learning how to see into the future he basically is just playing his part. It's like Dr Strange in Avengers. He could see 1000s of futures but only one in which they succeed. Therefore he has to play his roll, including making people fear him and "betraying" Chani.
Posted on 6/3/24 at 2:31 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Has Paul just been using the Fremen to become emperor this whole time?
No. IMO, originally Leto wanted the Fermen to sure up their position; nothing more. Leto did not want to be emperor. Paul did not want to either, but the circumstances forced Paul to play the hand he was delt. He basically turned the BJ propaganda against them and the emperor, but he was so genetically advanced that he did become the thing they thought was only a generation or two away.
quote:
Then immediately when he wins he forces the emperor to kiss his ring and sends the Fremen off to fight the noble houses and leave their homes.
He only does that because he has too, he has seen the possible futures and this is the only path where he, his family and the ferman survives. Its the only path where he can continue to be with Chani.
quote:
He was acting like he was trying to become the emperor to help the Fremen, but in reality has he been helping the Fremen to become emperor?
He was acting that way because it was the only way to save all he loved. I think people underestimate this ability to see into possible futures. He could not just take over Dune. The great houses would all attack the Fermen. He could not destroy the spice field really, because the worms would just produce more spice eventually. So Dune would be under constant attack from the Emporium. He has to become emperor to stop all the power players and protect the people, planet and remaining family.
This post was edited on 6/3/24 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 6/3/24 at 3:31 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
He could not just take over Dune. The great houses would all attack the Fermen. He could not destroy the spice field really, because the worms would just produce more spice eventually. So Dune would be under constant attack from the Emporium. He has to become emperor to stop all the power players and protect the people, planet and remaining family.
He has to become emperor to protect the Fremen from all of the great houses attacking them because he convinced them to start a war and overthrow the emperor
Posted on 6/3/24 at 3:51 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
He has to become emperor to protect the Fremen from all of the great houses attacking them because he convinced them to start a war and overthrow the emperor
Actually no, they were already fighting the Harks before Paul arrived. He just showed them how to be more effective, the Harks were on an genocide campaign against the Ferman even when the Barron thought Paul was dead. Again, he just see the best path forward and plays the role...
Posted on 6/11/24 at 8:41 pm to Tiger1242
Finally watched the move, have read Dune 20 times. Read entire series multiple times, even the abominations written by the son.
Did not like how Chani was portrayed in Part 2. Pouty and angry with Paul. She was the one that encouraged Paul to marry Irulan.
Stilgar went from strong character to a bumbling zealot.
Fantastic powerful visuals (would have even better at theater). But, couldn’t help feeling a little let down.
PS: Feyd was well done.
Did not like how Chani was portrayed in Part 2. Pouty and angry with Paul. She was the one that encouraged Paul to marry Irulan.
Stilgar went from strong character to a bumbling zealot.
Fantastic powerful visuals (would have even better at theater). But, couldn’t help feeling a little let down.
PS: Feyd was well done.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 10:07 pm to TigerTate
I can't remember, but I thought Paul had managed to stay the jihad somehow.
I thought the Fremen didn't go to space until Leto II ascended.
Not sure two clean brakes were possible, but this story may have been better served by a trilogy.
I thought the Fremen didn't go to space until Leto II ascended.
Not sure two clean brakes were possible, but this story may have been better served by a trilogy.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 11:46 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Meh, reluctant in the fact that this started because his family was attacked and mostly killed. But he is not reluctant to gain power once the opportunity arises. Hell he’s the one who brings up the idea of him marrying the emperors daughter and assuming power.
After he becomes the Kwizats Hederach. At that point his actions are him simply following the one path that will save the Fremen. This is obvious as he tells Chani he will always love her.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 1:52 am to Tiger1242
I didn’t get the feeling it was lip service but that he had two goals, both required him to become empower to complete.
1) Give Arrakis back to the Fermin, make it a green planet again.
2) Avenging his father’s death / atrocity against his family.
1) Give Arrakis back to the Fermin, make it a green planet again.
2) Avenging his father’s death / atrocity against his family.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 5:43 am to Tiger1242
quote:
Has Paul just been using the Fremen to become emperor this whole time?
By Jove, I think he’s got it.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:01 am to RougeDawg
quote:
My biggest question about Dune 2 is how do the Fremen know how to fly spacecraft? They run out to them at the end and I kept picturing them getting up to the bridge and then just staring at the controls.
They have been shown to have and use Ornithopters in both movies, so I would guess they know how to fly at least. I guess its just not their preferred way to travel.
They have one stored away at an outpost that Paul and Jessica use in the first movie. And Chani uses one in Dune 2.
Im sure there is a lot of automation involved in the big space barges.
This post was edited on 6/12/24 at 9:03 am
Posted on 6/12/24 at 3:31 pm to RougeDawg
quote:
My biggest question about Dune 2 is how do the Fremen know how to fly spacecraft?
My biggest question is once they got into space, how are they going to get anywhere if the Navigator's Guild isn't on their side.
(I didn't read the books, if the answer is there-in).
Posted on 6/12/24 at 4:00 pm to keks tadpole
My assumption was the Navigators stayed on the ships during the battle and when Stilgar and the other Fremen boarded the ships they said: 
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:15 pm to keks tadpole
In the book, I believe the guild had two representatives present when Paul and Feyd fought. Paul basically tells the emperor that the guild runs the universe and he is only a figure head. When the guild tells him they need to have talks about him taking over, he says there is no negotiation and he will destroy the spice fields if they don’t ship the other house armies off planet.
I believe he uses the same threats to force the guild to ship the fremen across the universe for jihad. Part of the reason the guild seeks to produce spice on a separate planet.
I believe he uses the same threats to force the guild to ship the fremen across the universe for jihad. Part of the reason the guild seeks to produce spice on a separate planet.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 2:34 pm to Tiger1242
The answer to your question is complicated.
Paul truly wanted to give Arakkis back to the freeman but didn’t realize how impossible that would be without overturning the entire power structure of the galaxy.
There several statements that stand out but none more than the opening line of the second movie, “Power over spice is power over all.” Even if he gave the planet Dune back to the Fremen it would only be a matter of time until it was conquered and returned to its current state.
For the betterment of the galaxy and the Fremen Paul leads the Fremen to seize control of the galaxy thereby have control of Arrakis.
quote:
Has Paul just been using the Fremen to become emperor this whole time?
Paul truly wanted to give Arakkis back to the freeman but didn’t realize how impossible that would be without overturning the entire power structure of the galaxy.
There several statements that stand out but none more than the opening line of the second movie, “Power over spice is power over all.” Even if he gave the planet Dune back to the Fremen it would only be a matter of time until it was conquered and returned to its current state.
For the betterment of the galaxy and the Fremen Paul leads the Fremen to seize control of the galaxy thereby have control of Arrakis.
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