re: A I refuses to say how many Jews were killed by the Nazis but knows all about the NABKA!!

Sounds bullshitty, especially seeing as how there's not exactly no jews at Google.

Hey buddy. Does AI know about the Holocoasters?

Here’s something that I doubt many people know.

I learned in school that the Nazis killed 11 million people on a systematic basis in the Holocaust. 6 million Jews plus 5 million other (Gypsies, homosexuals, invalids of various sorts).

Did y'all know the 11 million figure was made up? I’m not pulling this out of my arse, Holocaust historians have admitted it. It was a deliberate attempt to contrive a number of non Jews that was significant, yet less than the number of Jews, in order to garner more sympathy from gentiles at large. And now many are salty it still gets attention, because it fights for a share of outrage with the Jewish cost.

Times of Israel - ‘Remember the 11 million’? Why an inflated victims tally irks Holocaust historians

So, there is a lot of blatant disinformation around this topic and you’re a fool if you take every aspect of it without a grain of salt to say the least.

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The mass graves to support that number don't exist. The Germans tracked everything they did and their records can't corroborate that number either. The gas chambers couldn't physically destroy the missing millions of bodies either.

The most generous estimates using all available evidence support 3-4 million killed. That's still untolerable and doesn't take away from the horror, so why is there such animosity towards people that just want the truth?

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I agree with this, but it’s not really germane to this thread. As you pointed out yourself, 4 million is just as immoral as 6 million.

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Yeah, all those Jews just up and disappeared. No telling what happened to them. We'll never know!

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There is merit in questioning the 6 million figure. To my knowledge, the 6 million estimate comes from 3 main sources:


1) Census data. The jewish population in Europe decreased from a pre war ~9.5 million to post war ~3.5 million. Obviously not all died in the holocaust. Some fled to different nations and were unaccounted for after, many died as civilians (normal death, starvation, disease, bombings, shootings), as military personnel, as part of the holocaust.

2) An SS officer, who was a major and worked for their central intelligence agency (RSHA), named Dr. Wilhelm Höttl during the Nuremberg Trials.

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Approximately 4,000,000 Jews had been killed in the various concentration camps, while an additional 2,000,000 met death in other ways, the major part of whom were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia.

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3) Adolf Eichmann, another SS officer who was one of the main figures associated with bringing about the holocaust .Allegedly during the trial, held in Israel, he once said 6 million overall died. he later changed the number to 5 million in 1961 before being sentenced to death. I say allegedly as I havent looked into seeing if tapes exist.

They caught him in Argentina. A pretty interesting story to read about.

I think like any other historical event it is always good to look into it and continue to search for the truth. While the Germans kept good records, they did not have a master document, or multiple documents that when combined account for every death. A good example of this is something called Aktion T4 (T4 program). This was a eugenics program that killed mentally/physically disabled people (not just Jews, but in general). There is no main list/lists of all killed, only estimates, first hand witnesses, words from the families of those killed, and testimonies from the Nuremberg trials. Documents do exist that show killings, there are plenty. But there is nothing that when added up automatically equals an almost exact number, just like the holocaust.

Everyone has a bias and with such a polarizing event it will always be hard to find exact truth. There are many ridiculous claims on both sides (roller coasters that threw Jews into gas chambers/ovens, many nazi officals using jewish skin as decorations like lamp shades or as soap, people claiming the gas chambers were not in fact real and were only used for delousing).

Also, some believe Nuremberg trials estimates to also be not the greatest number due to mistreatment of Nazi affiliated prisoners. Whether that be forced confessions, threats, physical harm, etc.

My personal opinion is that the intensity of the holocaust only picked up when the war was clearly being lost. The german people starved as food went to soldiers. They did not have the resources to keep those in camps alive so they started executing them en masse.

Overall there were many attrocities during WW2 (allied bombings killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, holodomor, general starvation, ethnic killings/rape done by foreign armies in foreign lands done by all sides)

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You are being obtuse. What happened to the Jews during WW2 was arguably the greatest crime in human history. Maybe Stalin’s starvation of the Kulaks is as horrible; that’s about the only challenger.

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Western bias, what about Mao's Great Leap Forward that killed 30 - 55 million Chinese? That was just between 1958–1962. If we go past just the Great Leap Forward, some 80 million Chinese died under Mao. We will never know that number. So many died that the estimates range from 15m - 100m+

Labor camps, starvation, execution, mass killings, political prisoners.

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A I refuses to say how many Jews were killed by the Nazis

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12 billion

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We say 6 million because the jews say it was 6 million.

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The "number" congealed around statements by Eichmann made to another person in 1944. That came out during the 1961 trial, but a number between 5 and 6 million has been derived from census data and quite a bit of digging through Nazi archives.

Even the global civilian death total has a fairly wide range - as low as 35 to 38 million or as much as 55 to 60 million. Records are incomplete (Russia and China suffered enormous civilian casualties and records that would have helped narrow the number were destroyed during the fighting). While the Nazis kept detailed records, overall, as the war was ending, the killing ramped up and record keeping got lax.

The Nazis also killed millions of Soviet POWs and members of "undesirable" groups (Slavs, Gypsies, disabled, etc.)

Questioning the number for historical accuracy's sake is fine. Consensus seems to be in the 5 million to 6 million range (certainly not unreasonable), but certainly the Nazis had a target goal of surviving Jews on the planet: 0.

To parse these estimated numbers as a "gotcha" to either Jews or Israel is a questionable activity, IMHO.

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You don’t need mass graves for cremated bodies.

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The nazis didn't have the ability to cremate bodies at a higher rate than we do today. Cremation is expensive and not that simple.

They had giant industrial cremation facilities at a scale far beyond anything we have in our society because we aren’t genociding people in prison camps by the millions.

The holocaust happened in living memory. I have met survivors with the tattoos still on their wrists.