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re: Is anyone else not pushing their kids to attend college?
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:27 am to AwgustaDawg
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:27 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
A person can become a HVAC technician AFTER getting a 4 year degree....can't get a job requiring a 4 year degree if all you have is the skill to be a HVAC technician
Yes. Options are always the best route. Plus, a 4-year degree is almost MORE valuable than it used to be because everyone gets one, whether they're really deserving or not. It's basically high school 2.0 and expected.
0
Posted on 5/9/24 at 9:42 am to thedogman
quote:
hasn't shown any interest
Mine is a Junior and every time I mention college to him he looks at me like I'm speaking Mandarin Chinese or something.
pisses me off
Posted on 5/10/24 at 6:32 am to thedogman
Great article about how roughly half of degrees, especially masters, have a negative ROI
Degree ROIs
Degree ROIs
This post was edited on 5/10/24 at 6:34 am
Posted on 5/10/24 at 6:56 am to Hayekian serf
quote:
Great article about how roughly half of degrees, especially masters, have a negative ROI
quote:Just avoid the useless degrees. We all know what those are.
About 70 percent of undergraduate programs yield a positive return on investment. While that means higher education is still a decent bet on average
Posted on 5/10/24 at 7:01 am to Hayekian serf
quote:
Great article about how roughly half of degrees, especially masters, have a negative ROI
That’s not what the article says.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 7:05 am to Hayekian serf
quote:
Great article
I read the tagline for the organization, assumed their bias, which then led me to assume the flaw in their methodology and..
quote:
But golden ticket thinking is flawed. First, that 68 percent earnings premium is a median: not every college graduate earns so much. Second, people who attend college and people who stop out of their formal education with only a high school diploma are different along other dimensions, and have different preexisting earnings potential. College graduates probably would have out-earned the median high school graduate even if they had not gone to college.
quote:
Next, I estimate counterfactual earnings for the typical student in each program; in other words, what each student would have earned in a parallel universe where she did not pursue higher education.
This post was edited on 5/10/24 at 7:06 am
Posted on 5/10/24 at 7:24 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:a bunch of dudes who have never been paid to wear a tool belt disagree
What folks don't know or do not talk about is most people's bodies are unable to perform in their trade after about 55 but they have 10+ years left to work. It will start to impact most people around 45 but experience can carry you a few years.....thats of course if youre lucky and do not get injured on the job and find yourself unable to physically perform at 22.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 7:34 am to thedogman
My kids don’t want to go. Of course they are always around plumbers, electricians, trim carpenters because of my line of work so they don’t know much outside of that’s what people do for jobs. My oldest likes to code but he knows AI will take a big chunk of that field away.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:45 am to SlowFlowPro
99% people in this thread will not understand any of that....hence why they think being in the trades is some amazing thing 
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:47 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
a bunch of dudes who have never been paid to wear a tool belt disagree
this is essentially what this thread boils down to.
got a bunch of guys who are stuck in middle management in lower paying jobs with their college degree....who look out the window and think the grass is greener.
what they dont understand is how hard the work is and that those that are extremely successful would be successful in pretty much any field, include the one the posters are in now.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:51 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
There is nothing at all wrong with a BS in Business Administration. Very easy degree, cheap....and opens to the door to middle management which leads to upper management. Engineers are underpaid tradesmen without the OT and union protection...trust me, I have a BS Degree in EE and a IBEW Ticket,,,,if I were using either to make a living it would be the latter and no doubt of it because it pays better and has far better benefits. I will NEVER work as an engineer at any level again....I have been both and being a tradesman is far better.....
and you could easily move and make way more as an EE and have a much better lifestyle in EE than what someone with the IBEW ticket can
I have done both as Im a certified pipe fitter, sprikler fitter, have nicets in both inspecation and design amongst a lot of other certifications. Also have my engineering degree and have done both blue and white collar
frick anyone that thinks blue collar work is better.
In your case...you are commercial....commercial electrician work sucks dick. Not sure how the union credits are where you are at and how the job market for EE is, but if its atlanta...if you wanted to do something besides typical power you could easily move into the controls, electronics side or just go into project management much easier and make way more than someone with an IBEW ticket.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:52 am to thedogman
What always entertains me is how much the trade folks push the anti college agenda and the college folks agree.
Like yep....please, don't go to college.
You rarely see college folks or people who encourage their kids and dependents to go to college trying to convince others it's the best route.
There is not a halfway decent public high school in this state not giving their students every opportunity for success after high school if they want to pursue a trade but the narrative that there's so much pressure to go to college is their fuel for a fire that doesnt exist in the manner they want to think it does.
Like yep....please, don't go to college.
You rarely see college folks or people who encourage their kids and dependents to go to college trying to convince others it's the best route.
There is not a halfway decent public high school in this state not giving their students every opportunity for success after high school if they want to pursue a trade but the narrative that there's so much pressure to go to college is their fuel for a fire that doesnt exist in the manner they want to think it does.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:54 am to bbarras85
quote:
My father in law in the last years before he retired was netting 400-500k running his own hvac business. It is a decent living. I would not have a problem with either of my boys following in his footsteps.
of course the business owner is successful. but do you realize there arent many of those? its not as easy as just saying...im gonna own a company
yall act like everyone in the trades is out there just working for themselves, clearing 250k or more. also act like it so easy to just open a business and make it successful.
your FIL would have been a success no matter what he went into.
go ask any tradesman to be honest...would they want their son to follow their footsteps if it was possible for him to go get a degree and work a white collar job. I know what 90% would say, especially at the end of a shift in may-august.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:59 am to lsu777
quote:
99% people in this thread will not understand any of that....hence why they think being in the trades is some amazing thing
That organization is, allegedly, a pro-labor organization trying to support the lower and lower-middle working class, and their study is based off the assumption that those population cohorts are idiots, effectively. It's such a stupid thing to assume, and ignores the thing I (and you) keep saying about the outer-bands of the income levels of the "trades" (which they base that data on to calculate the ROI).
Part of our whole argument is that a lot of people in the trades are not dumb, and those people move onto more white collar versions of the trades (management/supervisor positions, ownership, etc.). Yet we are attacked for hating on them....when we're not, and that group, which claims to support them, basically calls them all idiots.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:15 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That organization is, allegedly, a pro-labor organization trying to support the lower and lower-middle working class, and their study is based off the assumption that those population cohorts are idiots, effectively. It's such a stupid thing to assume, and ignores the thing I (and you) keep saying about the outer-bands of the income levels of the "trades" (which they base that data on to calculate the ROI).
Part of our whole argument is that a lot of people in the trades are not dumb, and those people move onto more white collar versions of the trades (management/supervisor positions, ownership, etc.). Yet we are attacked for hating on them....when we're not, and that group, which claims to support them, basically calls them all idiots.
i find it funny af that a bunch of guys in cubicles on this board, cant seem to grasp that the white collar type jobs in the trades are not the norm and the people in those positions are the types that prolly should have gone to college or at least had the IQ to.
its also telling in these threads......can easily tell who has spent time in the trades or alot of time around people in the trades. most of the posters pushing the trades would be flabbergasted by just the language used
i mean its the type of language that would make a drill sergeant from the 80s and 90s blush.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:21 am to thedogman
My father in law (RIP) was a plumber and pneumatic control line mechanic, who eventually moved into AC repair. All were good fields to be in 30 or 40 years back, for people willing to put in a really hard day's work. At one time I offered that if he would start a business, I would leave the pharmaceutical industry and go to work for him. He could teach me as I did the grunt work (Lots of lifting and moving stuff) and eventually I would buy the business from him. He was afraid to leave his Pneumatic controls job to the uncertainty of a private company, so we never worked it out. If a person is a very hard worker, there are really good businesses out there, such as plumbing and electric stuff. However if you are not a really hard worker, you will be a miserable failure.
My best example is plumber who does sewage work. Folks are willing to pay a lot on a Saturday night to get their shite moving out of their house into the sewer or septic system. Of course, getting shite on you is literally a big part of this well-paying job. Something tells me a fifteen-year-old with no interest in anything, would be a failure in this kind of career.
If he doesn't mind pissing in a plastic gallon jug and being on the road 24/7, he could go to big Truck driving school.
Be sure to tell him he will never make it as a competition Video game player. Also tell him, the mexicans have the laborer field wrapped up and are willing to work harder than he ever will.
Best thing my dad ever did for me was to get me jobs as a stake driving laborer on big construction sites, when it was blazing hot and bitter cold and rainy because they led me to an understanding there were better ways to get rich, other than digging 100 yard drainage ditches by hand with a flat blade shovel, in July.
Worked a job one summer carrying 12 soot pieces of sheet rock with another laborer up five or six floors of stairs in a building under construction. Every time we dropped a sheet onto the pile up stairs, the construction guys would yell at us for not being quicker to twist that heavy shite up the 4 to 6 floors of stairwells. Great job for a kid who has no work goals.
My best example is plumber who does sewage work. Folks are willing to pay a lot on a Saturday night to get their shite moving out of their house into the sewer or septic system. Of course, getting shite on you is literally a big part of this well-paying job. Something tells me a fifteen-year-old with no interest in anything, would be a failure in this kind of career.
If he doesn't mind pissing in a plastic gallon jug and being on the road 24/7, he could go to big Truck driving school.
Be sure to tell him he will never make it as a competition Video game player. Also tell him, the mexicans have the laborer field wrapped up and are willing to work harder than he ever will.
Best thing my dad ever did for me was to get me jobs as a stake driving laborer on big construction sites, when it was blazing hot and bitter cold and rainy because they led me to an understanding there were better ways to get rich, other than digging 100 yard drainage ditches by hand with a flat blade shovel, in July.
Worked a job one summer carrying 12 soot pieces of sheet rock with another laborer up five or six floors of stairs in a building under construction. Every time we dropped a sheet onto the pile up stairs, the construction guys would yell at us for not being quicker to twist that heavy shite up the 4 to 6 floors of stairwells. Great job for a kid who has no work goals.
This post was edited on 5/10/24 at 9:26 am
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:24 am to lsu777
It feels like the trade school propaganda has slowed down a lot over the years.
We even got a more vintage OT "I didn't let workers use my bathroom" thread yesterday.
We even got a more vintage OT "I didn't let workers use my bathroom" thread yesterday.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 9:41 am to tigerfoot
quote:
I laughed but I bet Akexandria would support a great male owned old school one or two chair barber shop. A place to talk sports, have a cold beer…. We don’t have anything like that
we have one of those where i live. you can help yourself to whatever you want to drink when you walk in. The guy charges $40 (without tip) and typically does 3 people per hour. I know he has taxes and rent to pay, but not a bad gig.
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