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Started By
Message
re: Sweden now in NATO
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:39 am to LuckyTiger
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:39 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
I was referring to your Warsaw Pact reference.
Thought it would help make the point.
1
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:39 am to cwill
quote:
People, who are definitely not Putin fans, seem to get big mad about any news that seems to negatively impact him.
Or that Joe Biden's brain is stuck in the 80s.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:40 am to dgnx6
quote:
Which is why people say things like the west are the agressors because imagine russia being on the mexico border.
I've used that reference too when trying to explain Putins reactions to our involvement in Ukraine.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:41 am to cwill
quote:
People, who are definitely not Putin fans
I’m just highlighting this here because we recently had a thread where a poster swore people critical of US & NATO foreign policy were never called Putin fans.
I pointed out some links that showed otherwise. I’m just doing this here once again, for the record.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:41 am to VOR
Can NATO now sell Swedish Bikini Beach Volleyball Team calendars ?
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:42 am to tigeraddict
quote:
One day, when China must attack Russia for its resource needs, Russia will join NATO.
so Clancy's Bear and the Dragonwill come true..... china has to be watching Russia weaken itself, and with minorities in the east taking the brunt of the drafts for the war in ukraine watch for china to ferment unrest. Russia's eastern populace is largely asian
I agree, though I think that timeline is perhaps a good way out timeline-wise? Maybe even after the next major global war.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:42 am to goatmilker
Fair point sir.
Withdrawn.
Withdrawn.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:45 am to Timeoday
quote:
One day, when China must attack Russia for its resource needs, Russia will join NATO.
Russia stole Outer Manchuria from China at gunpoint in the late 1850's when China was bogged-down in the Opium Wars with Great Britain and France. I don't see the U.S. spilling blood and treasure to prevent them from taking it back if it comes to that. China will likely have to be more concerned with defending themselves from Japan than taking back part of Russia.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:45 am to goatmilker
quote:
Its a worse case scenario for Putin
Why would it bother Putin? NATO is not an invading army. Russia is an invading army. Countries join NATO so that they won't be invaded by Russia. That's always been what motivates countries to join a defensive alliance.
This is only "bad" for Putin if it was his intent to invade Sweden.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:47 am to goatmilker
It’s stupid
You’ve increased the risk of a direct confrontation without making us more powerful in any such scenario (which would diminish risk, because it would make a war less less likely).
You’ve increased the risk of a direct confrontation without making us more powerful in any such scenario (which would diminish risk, because it would make a war less less likely).
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:48 am to VOR
Well if Putin won't cross NATO borders as NATO nations have promised, we'll just take the NATO borders to him.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:52 am to goatmilker
quote:
Its a worse case scenario for Putin and I promise you his Generals are not pleased. Especially the Navy.
This was a serious blunder for Putin in naval terms. Murmansk is now cut off. Kaliningrad is bottled-up in the Baltic Sea with no way to get past Sweden and Denmark, and Turkey can bottle-up the Black Sea Fleet. The only things left are Vladivostok and the submarine base at Viliuchinsk in the far east, which doesn't help much unless Russia wants to go to war with the China, Japan, or the U.S. on the high seas. For all intents and purposes, Russia no longer has a Navy.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:52 am to Lsuhoohoo
quote:
Well if Putin won't cross NATO borders as NATO nations have promised, we'll just take the NATO borders to him.
It hardly seems fair that Russia is limited to its own borders. That's a direct attack on Russia's ability to invade others. How could we be so aggressive?
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:53 am to goatmilker
quote:
Imagine suddenly Norfolk or Pearl or San Diego now being only 100 miles away from a new Warsaw pact nation.
Exactly.
You’re not pro Russia or Putin by looking at the game board and realizing that from their position if your perceived opponent is closing in on you that you’re going to have to get more defensive or in the case of Ukraine go on the offense.
Russia was a defeated nation with a GDP less than CA…yet we continue to prop them up as enemy #1 and keep poking at them which is a dangerous game with their nuclear arsenal. If we had actual diplomats working with Russia all of this could’ve been avoided and quite possibly mutually beneficial.
But no, we bend over to Iran and China while they actively go after us but are all in against Russia. It makes no logical sense.
People need to look at this strategically rather than like a bunch of emotional women.
This post was edited on 3/8/24 at 9:54 am
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:54 am to Lima Whiskey
To those saying its meaningless.
One of the main reasons Russia says it is fighting in Ukraine is to stop its neighbour being turned into a NATO outpost that would threaten its own security.
The Kremlin said Russia would be forced to take "counter-measures" in response to Finland's NATO entry that it would adjust depending on the kind of military deployments and infrastructure rolled out in Finland.
The further expansion of NATO is an "encroachment on our security and on Russia's national interests", said Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov.
Russia's Foreign Ministry said Finland was committing a dangerous historic mistake by joining NATO that would dilute its own influence on the world stage and hurt its ties with Moscow.
"Helsinki's policy of military non-alignment had long served Finnish national interests and was an important factor of confidence-building in the Baltic Sea region and the European continent as a whole," the ministry said in a statement.
One of the main reasons Russia says it is fighting in Ukraine is to stop its neighbour being turned into a NATO outpost that would threaten its own security.
The Kremlin said Russia would be forced to take "counter-measures" in response to Finland's NATO entry that it would adjust depending on the kind of military deployments and infrastructure rolled out in Finland.
The further expansion of NATO is an "encroachment on our security and on Russia's national interests", said Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov.
Russia's Foreign Ministry said Finland was committing a dangerous historic mistake by joining NATO that would dilute its own influence on the world stage and hurt its ties with Moscow.
"Helsinki's policy of military non-alignment had long served Finnish national interests and was an important factor of confidence-building in the Baltic Sea region and the European continent as a whole," the ministry said in a statement.
This post was edited on 3/8/24 at 9:55 am
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:55 am to TBoy
Then perhaps we should be limited to our own borders?
Unless we’re looking to spark or get involved in foreign wars?
After all, we’ve invaded a lot of countries.
Unless we’re looking to spark or get involved in foreign wars?
After all, we’ve invaded a lot of countries.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:57 am to VOR
quote:No!
It’s a blow to Putin
It's a blow to Russia. Putin will eventually exit the picture. All this crap, which you Ukraine sycophants think is just great, ensures permanent animous of the most prolific nuclear threat on the planet. Permanent means long after Putin, even if Russia was inclined changed its ways in the future.
That is stupid to the core.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:58 am to TBoy
quote:
NATO is not an invading army. Russia is an invading army.
NATO may not be an invading Army, but Russia stole a good chunk of Finland and we've all seen what Germany is capable of when sufficiently stressed for resources.....twice. Russia is surrounded on all sides by enemies because they have made enemies of their neighbors through prior military conquests.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 9:58 am to Tantal
quote:
The only things left are Vladivostok and the submarine base at Viliuchinsk in the far east, which doesn't help much unless Russia wants to go to war with the China
Or, perhaps Russia and China cooperate militarily because it’s in both their interests to do so?
Posted on 3/8/24 at 10:01 am to fjlee90
quote:
Now we get to pay for Sweden’s defense.
Neat.
For their size and population, Sweden has a pretty impressive military.... especially their air force.
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