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re: Shogun - Official Series Discussion Thread **Spoilers**
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:18 am to Green Chili Tiger
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:18 am to Green Chili Tiger
quote:HOLY shite.
If he looks familiar to you, it's from the Thor movies
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:29 am to Fewer Kilometers
He was also in Midway:
And Battleship
And Battleship
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:40 am to sqerty
quote:
Yabushige
If the actor that plays this guy doesn't win the Best Supporting Actor Emmy, then something has gone horribly wrong.
Yabushige is a complete piece of shite, yet endearing, yet ruthless, yet funny as hell.
It's an amazing character. Like for all of his buffoonery, there are scenes like the one with Blackthorne on the beach where you remember that this dude is a Lord and he can totally frick you up.
He's the only Japanese character on the show that views his life the way the West does (worth preserving at all costs) vs. the other Japanese characters on the show.
This post was edited on 4/22/24 at 11:41 am
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:45 am to truthbetold
quote:Which is probably why the Anjin-San can relate to him, in spite of him murdering his shipmate.
He's the only Japanese character on the show that views his life the way the West does (worth preserving at all costs) vs. the other Japanese characters on the show.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 12:22 pm to truthbetold
I really thought he was going to be this absolute psychopath super dark character. He booked a guy alive episode 1.
And now he just goes around making deals with whoever just caught him betraying them.
Really just flying by the seat of his pants.
Makes me think of the Console Wars episodes of Soith Park where the old man is yelling “don’t make a deal with him he’s going to betray you”
And now he just goes around making deals with whoever just caught him betraying them.
Really just flying by the seat of his pants.
Makes me think of the Console Wars episodes of Soith Park where the old man is yelling “don’t make a deal with him he’s going to betray you”
This post was edited on 4/22/24 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 4/22/24 at 12:37 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Which is probably why the Anjin-San can relate to him, in spite of him murdering his shipmate.
I'm re-reading the novel. (read it back in college). In the book you get so much more inner dialogue of what people are thinking.
Blackthorn is definitely still planning on killing him at first chance and hasn't forgotten any of what was done to him and his men.
And Yabu has GREAT inner dialogue. He's definitely an opportunist and ruthless to no end. The actor is killing it as him.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 1:22 pm to TygerTyger
quote:
In the book you get so much more inner dialogue of what people are thinking.
You also get so much more relationship development, especially Mariko very gradually becoming close to Blackthorn. The series did not have enough money to stretch this out to 20 episodes as the novel really needs as you can see through the crap CGI. Great series nonetheless.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 1:35 pm to rebelrouser
so is this going to be the end of the series or just season 1?
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:00 pm to whiskey over ice
End of the series unless something changes.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:20 pm to TygerTyger
Generally, I find the original miniseries to hold up extremely well; as good as this show on many accounts, often better.
Yabu is one of the major exceptions. He was not done poorly in the original, but you would despise him the entire time. In this, Yabushige (I had instantly noticed the slight change of name) is, as people pointed out, actually a likeable guy.
Based on the book (not wanting to spoil anything), I think it's going to be a very good and memorable episode as far as Yabu is concerned.
Yabu is one of the major exceptions. He was not done poorly in the original, but you would despise him the entire time. In this, Yabushige (I had instantly noticed the slight change of name) is, as people pointed out, actually a likeable guy.
Based on the book (not wanting to spoil anything), I think it's going to be a very good and memorable episode as far as Yabu is concerned.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 7:18 am to Scoob
quote:
I think it's going to be a very good and memorable episode as far as Yabu is concerned.
His death poem was a work of art. for such a double crossing turd, he really was lovable.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 7:27 am to Scoob
Welp.......
I have to say, I'm disappointed.
Like I've said before in this thread, I read the book back in college. But that was 30 years ago and I don't remember it in detail. I'm re-reading it now but only maybe 15% done.
But what I do remember, and am seeing in the re-read, is that the book focuses primarily on Blackthorn's story, but also delves fairly deeply in to all of the other character's stories as well. Clavell writes from their perspectives, and with their inner dialogues.
The show has focused mostly on Blackthorn, but also shown the other perspectives. And done so fairly, not really favoring any one other character.
But then this last episode comes along and speed runs through a huge chunk of the final act through exposition and a fast forward. And misses telling a lot of the story and plot (the way I remember it).
We get Toronada describing to Yabu what will happen to all of the chess pieces he's been playing for generations, and although in the book it's clearly shown how intricate and genius it all is, I think it falls flat here.
II'd like to have had Ochiba No Kata's (mother to the heir) inner dialogue when she decides to betray Yoshido.
Same with Blackthorn. His confession to Toranada seemed confusing. His change of heart and desire to die. Why? Show me.
What I took away from the final episode was that ALL of this was MAINLY due to the death/sacrafice of Mariko. NOT the huge mosaic of pieces in motion that Toranado has been moving for 50 years. JUST that Mariko was blown up.
Don't get me wrong, I love her character. BUT it seems to me like they elevated her importance to be the "main character" in this last episode. MAybe I'm just overly burned out on Hollywood's "STRONG INDEPENDANT FEMALE CHARACTER and THE MESSAGE due to the complete over saturation as of late. But if I remember the book, her death although meaningful and impactful, was NOT the check mate play that it was in the show.
And I know a lot here were expecting a huge revenge fueled John Wick style killing spree from Toranado, Bunto, and Blackthorn. But the beauty of the book is that Toranado was able to "win" the war without massive bloodshed and civil war. He won through guile and merciless game play. He won through Kobayashi Maru. Truly the Japanese way. The way a true Shogun would.
I'm going to re-watch the series with my wife, and hopefully my opinion changes.
I have to say, I'm disappointed.
Like I've said before in this thread, I read the book back in college. But that was 30 years ago and I don't remember it in detail. I'm re-reading it now but only maybe 15% done.
But what I do remember, and am seeing in the re-read, is that the book focuses primarily on Blackthorn's story, but also delves fairly deeply in to all of the other character's stories as well. Clavell writes from their perspectives, and with their inner dialogues.
The show has focused mostly on Blackthorn, but also shown the other perspectives. And done so fairly, not really favoring any one other character.
But then this last episode comes along and speed runs through a huge chunk of the final act through exposition and a fast forward. And misses telling a lot of the story and plot (the way I remember it).
We get Toronada describing to Yabu what will happen to all of the chess pieces he's been playing for generations, and although in the book it's clearly shown how intricate and genius it all is, I think it falls flat here.
II'd like to have had Ochiba No Kata's (mother to the heir) inner dialogue when she decides to betray Yoshido.
Same with Blackthorn. His confession to Toranada seemed confusing. His change of heart and desire to die. Why? Show me.
What I took away from the final episode was that ALL of this was MAINLY due to the death/sacrafice of Mariko. NOT the huge mosaic of pieces in motion that Toranado has been moving for 50 years. JUST that Mariko was blown up.
Don't get me wrong, I love her character. BUT it seems to me like they elevated her importance to be the "main character" in this last episode. MAybe I'm just overly burned out on Hollywood's "STRONG INDEPENDANT FEMALE CHARACTER and THE MESSAGE due to the complete over saturation as of late. But if I remember the book, her death although meaningful and impactful, was NOT the check mate play that it was in the show.
And I know a lot here were expecting a huge revenge fueled John Wick style killing spree from Toranado, Bunto, and Blackthorn. But the beauty of the book is that Toranado was able to "win" the war without massive bloodshed and civil war. He won through guile and merciless game play. He won through Kobayashi Maru. Truly the Japanese way. The way a true Shogun would.
I'm going to re-watch the series with my wife, and hopefully my opinion changes.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 7:34 am to MattA
ALSO, I finally figured out who Yabu reminds me of:
Victor Wong, who was in The Golden Child
And Big Trouble in Little China
Victor Wong, who was in The Golden Child
And Big Trouble in Little China
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:50 am to TygerTyger
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t underwhelmed.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:23 pm to ohiovol
I have to say just finishing it, it was really good. Everything wrapped and we knew that Tor would triumph in the end. I love that Lady Mariko was Crimson Sky and all the chess pieces Tor had to play to get the outcome he wanted.
We know that ultimately Blackthorn beats Toranaga and gets home. The reason he was willing to give his life for that village is because he needed them for his new ship.
Also, making old dude feel the pain of his suppaku was cool blooded. All-in-all excellent wrap up and perfect ending to a intrigue series.
We know that ultimately Blackthorn beats Toranaga and gets home. The reason he was willing to give his life for that village is because he needed them for his new ship.
Also, making old dude feel the pain of his suppaku was cool blooded. All-in-all excellent wrap up and perfect ending to a intrigue series.
This post was edited on 4/23/24 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 4/23/24 at 12:43 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
We know that ultimately Blackthorn beats Toranaga and gets home.
Those visions were not real. Case in point he return the rosary to the sea. In his dream, he was an old man with the rosary still with him. As he released the rosary he also released his dream of returning home.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 1:02 pm to ohiovol
You aren’t the only one. I was expecting something a bit more epic than an epilogue. Still an amazing show and better than anything in a while.
For anybody looking for a new show, Tokyo Vice is a modern day crime show set in Tokyo with an authentic cast. Or if you’re looking for another period piece, Black Sails just released on Netflix.
For anybody looking for a new show, Tokyo Vice is a modern day crime show set in Tokyo with an authentic cast. Or if you’re looking for another period piece, Black Sails just released on Netflix.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 1:21 pm to rebeloke
Yep.
In the book Blackthorn never makes it home. Toranada strings him along the whole time.
In the show it was a dream within a dream. The episode title gives it away.
In the book Blackthorn never makes it home. Toranada strings him along the whole time.
In the show it was a dream within a dream. The episode title gives it away.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 1:47 pm to TygerTyger
quote:
In the book Blackthorn never makes it home. Toranada strings him along the whole time.
The real life "John Blackthorne" married a Japanese woman and had 2 kids. When he died, he left an inheritance to both his family in Japan and his family in England. His grave is in Hirado, just north of Nagasaki.
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