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Trump’s Boldest Argument Yet: Immunity From Prosecution for Assassinations
Posted on 1/10/24 at 6:20 pm
Posted on 1/10/24 at 6:20 pm
A lawyer for the former president said he would be immune from prosecution for the murder of a political rival while in office unless he was first impeached and convicted in Congress.
Eight years ago, just before the Iowa caucuses, Donald J. Trump crowed about his invulnerability.
“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, OK?” he said. “It’s, like, incredible.”
On Tuesday, at a federal appeals court argument held the week before this year’s caucuses, a lawyer for Mr. Trump said that the Constitution basically states the same thing.
It took a few questions from Judge Florence Y. Pan to pin down the lawyer, D. John Sauer. But in the end he made the jaw-dropping claim that former presidents are absolutely immune from prosecution even for murders they ordered while in office.
“I asked you a yes-or-no question,” Judge Pan said. “Could a president who ordered SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a political rival, who was not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution?”
Mr. Sauer said his answer was a “qualified yes,” by which he meant no. He explained that prosecution would only be permitted if the president were first impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate.
LINK
Eight years ago, just before the Iowa caucuses, Donald J. Trump crowed about his invulnerability.
“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, OK?” he said. “It’s, like, incredible.”
On Tuesday, at a federal appeals court argument held the week before this year’s caucuses, a lawyer for Mr. Trump said that the Constitution basically states the same thing.
It took a few questions from Judge Florence Y. Pan to pin down the lawyer, D. John Sauer. But in the end he made the jaw-dropping claim that former presidents are absolutely immune from prosecution even for murders they ordered while in office.
“I asked you a yes-or-no question,” Judge Pan said. “Could a president who ordered SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a political rival, who was not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution?”
Mr. Sauer said his answer was a “qualified yes,” by which he meant no. He explained that prosecution would only be permitted if the president were first impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate.
LINK
Posted on 1/10/24 at 6:22 pm to Eurocat
quote:
He explained that prosecution would only be permitted if the president were first impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate.
That's exactly what the Constitution says.
This post was edited on 1/10/24 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 1/10/24 at 6:29 pm to Eurocat
Do you even know why he would be?
Posted on 1/10/24 at 7:35 pm to Eurocat
quote:
Mr. Sauer said his answer was a “qualified yes,” by which he meant no.
I’m not sure that is what it means.
Posted on 1/10/24 at 7:39 pm to OceanMan
Yeah, I read that as "yes if the following conditions exists".
Posted on 1/10/24 at 7:40 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
That's exactly what the Constitution says.
Could you perhaps quote that as it doesn’t seem to be in any version I have read.
Posted on 1/10/24 at 7:49 pm to SEC. 593
If he is successfully impeached, then he can be prosecuted.
Impeachment conviction lifts immunity.
Impeachment conviction lifts immunity.
quote:
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
U.S. CONST. art. I, § 3, cl. 7
Posted on 1/10/24 at 7:56 pm to Eurocat
He is just setting up Obama.
Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:15 pm to Eurocat
If Trump or any President actually called for the assassination of a political rival, they would be impeached faster than you could say, "Richard Nixon".
This is just a absurd tactic by the Judge to discredit Trump's valid defense.
This is just a absurd tactic by the Judge to discredit Trump's valid defense.
Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:24 pm to Eurocat
Obama got away with assassinating two Americans via drone attack, how is this hypothetical different?
Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:39 pm to Eurocat
We already have a 14 page thread discussing this, dipshit.
Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:42 pm to TrueTiger
This:
Doesnt say he’s immune if he’s not impeached.
quote:
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Doesnt say he’s immune if he’s not impeached.
Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:47 pm to TrueTiger
Reading the unbolded clause there to me is key because that is one sentence in full. The bolded (imo) is stating that the impeachment trial is not the full extent of the legal process and only serves as the conduit of removal from office.
Posted on 1/10/24 at 8:49 pm to cwill
It says he's fair game if successfully impeached.
You think he's not in that circumstance?
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