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Message
Bi-polar changed take on Zion - if he's not going to be a top 5 player move on
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:37 am
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:37 am
I've said this before: I'm not nearly as game-to-game reactionary in football as I am with this team for some reason.
Regardless, I've always been pro-Zion in the sense that I felt he had top 5 potential, and you need to have a top 5 player to compete for a title. That's why I was firmly in the keep in camp and was more trade BI if you have to move one.
After the last few games, I'm changing my opinion again.
Trade both of them. Neither guy is "it." Ingram never had the potential to be. Zion did, but it's just clear now he will never get in shape, and each year, he loses a little more athleticism. It also has to be beyond frustrating for the hard-working players to see this lazy bastard loafing on the court. I used to think Zion would get it one day. But even this summer, with the skanks and having a kid with some trashbag, just shows he's clueless.
If you don't have a top 5 maybe top 10 talent in the NBA, you keep swinging until you get one. It's like having a franchise QB in the NFL. Signing mediocre talent like Carr, is not it? Keep gunning for the next Burrow/Mahomes, etc. Anything else is just wasting time.
So now I think it may be time to accept we do not have our future franchise leader on the roster. Trade Ingram and Zion for as many picks as you can get and hope to find the next star in the draft.
In the meantime, Herb, Trey, Jose, Dyson, and Hawkins are your building blocks. They will play hard and compete. They may or may not make the play-in but they won't play like pussies.
CJ can stay another year just to be the mentor, but it's also clear he's not good enough for a championship team, either. Same for Jonas.
TL/DR time to consider blowing it up.
Regardless, I've always been pro-Zion in the sense that I felt he had top 5 potential, and you need to have a top 5 player to compete for a title. That's why I was firmly in the keep in camp and was more trade BI if you have to move one.
After the last few games, I'm changing my opinion again.
Trade both of them. Neither guy is "it." Ingram never had the potential to be. Zion did, but it's just clear now he will never get in shape, and each year, he loses a little more athleticism. It also has to be beyond frustrating for the hard-working players to see this lazy bastard loafing on the court. I used to think Zion would get it one day. But even this summer, with the skanks and having a kid with some trashbag, just shows he's clueless.
If you don't have a top 5 maybe top 10 talent in the NBA, you keep swinging until you get one. It's like having a franchise QB in the NFL. Signing mediocre talent like Carr, is not it? Keep gunning for the next Burrow/Mahomes, etc. Anything else is just wasting time.
So now I think it may be time to accept we do not have our future franchise leader on the roster. Trade Ingram and Zion for as many picks as you can get and hope to find the next star in the draft.
In the meantime, Herb, Trey, Jose, Dyson, and Hawkins are your building blocks. They will play hard and compete. They may or may not make the play-in but they won't play like pussies.
CJ can stay another year just to be the mentor, but it's also clear he's not good enough for a championship team, either. Same for Jonas.
TL/DR time to consider blowing it up.
8
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:44 am to ghost2most
Would we be better with a starting lineup of
CJ
BI
Herb
Trey
JJJ
over what we currently have?
CJ
BI
Herb
Trey
JJJ
over what we currently have?
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:45 am to ghost2most
The Lakers w/LeBron and AD lost a game by 44 points....10 days ago.
This was one game.
This was one game.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:50 am to MrBarry
quote:No
Would we be better with a starting lineup of
CJ
BI
Herb
Trey
JJJ
over what we currently have?
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:50 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
The Lakers w/LeBron and AD lost a game by 44 points....10 days ago.
This was one game.
Did you not hear the announcers last night? Lakers are a lock for the championship. They are unstoppable.
Too early in the season for ring talk especially for the lakers. But watching the pels last night was a chore. Zero energy. If you are going to get blown out at least give it your all. 
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:52 am to ghost2most
we suddenly have possibly one of the worst contracts in the league.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:53 am to ghost2most
quote:My thought is the same for the team.
Regardless, I've always been pro-Zion in the sense that I felt he had top 5 potential, and you need to have a top 5 player to compete for a title. That's why I was firmly in the keep in camp and was more trade BI if you have to move one.
I think this team if they all buy and play the roles they should can make some serious noise. I don't know that we can beat DEN/MIL/BOS but I feel confident that we're knocking on that door.
That's what makes it most frustrating. We can only do the above if Zion is an actual top 10 dude and BI 25 or 30 or somewhere around there. But right now, Zion is maybe top 30 and BI 50-60. The most frustrating part is knowing if they buy in and just try and play their role, we would be in good shape, but the hope for that to ever happen is waning.
THere's a lot of "it's just 1 game" and this and that. Those people have been waiting for 5 years, we all have.
The question is, what have you seen from our top 2 in the last 5 years that makes you not concerned and makes you think they'll just flip that switch AND sustain it and everything will be hunky dory?
And the craziest part is, our best chance to make any noise is STILL with Zion on this team. If we trade him, we're cooked. I don't know the odds that he defies all these years of what he's shown us, but whatever they are, they're still better than the 0 odds we have if we trade him.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:55 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
This was one game.
Zion’s effort sucks every game. He is also fat every game. We have a very large sample size to confirm the accuracy of both of my statements.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:58 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:Where would you rank Zion as a player? Or, who are some of his current NBA comps? And I don't mean comps by playing style...meaning if you think he's 15th best, who do you have ranked right around him?
This was one game.
My question is, name me all the other dudes you rank right around Zion that have played 4 games this season or last season or any season where they've scored 12/13/10 in 3 of those 4 games.
shite like that matters. We need Zion to be a top 10 player to reach out peak. The best of the best in the NBA have a mindset that they will not be stopped, a nd even on bad nights, they don't slink away and still get their shots up. They won't be held to 13 points or less in 3 of 4 games.
I don't think we realize just how bad that is and also just how scary this 4 game stretch is.
This post was edited on 12/8/23 at 9:59 am
Posted on 12/8/23 at 9:59 am to unctiger4
The Lakers gave us a taste of what a good playoffs defense looks like against this healthy team. And they exploited every flaw this team has in 1 game. That completely broke me.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:02 am to Soggymoss
quote:
Calm down now
Sure.
Zion gives me zero hope that he'll ever be in any sort of condition that every other player in the league has no issue being in. "one of a kind" my butt, he's straight fat at the age of 23 or whatever.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:22 am to shel311
quote:
Where would you rank Zion as a player? Or, who are some of his current NBA comps? And I don't mean comps by playing style...meaning if you think he's 15th best, who do you have ranked right around him?
My question is, name me all the other dudes you rank right around Zion that have played 4 games this season or last season or any season where they've scored 12/13/10 in 3 of those 4 games.
shite like that matters. We need Zion to be a top 10 player to reach out peak. The best of the best in the NBA have a mindset that they will not be stopped, a nd even on bad nights, they don't slink away and still get their shots up. They won't be held to 13 points or less in 3 of 4 games.
I don't think we realize just how bad that is and also just how scary this 4 game stretch is.
I didn't comment on Zion specifically. I'm not defending him and if we could get something decent in return, I'm not against trading him. I'm talking about the "blowing up the team" remark because people are being overly emotional after a single loss.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:42 am to ghost2most
In the last 4 games, Zion is averaging 10 shot attempts per game and hasn't played 30 minutes in any of those games.
This post was edited on 12/8/23 at 10:43 am
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:45 am to ghost2most
This is music to my ears
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:49 am to ghost2most
I definitely don't think we should blow it up or even trade Zion, but the last thing I was thinking about last night when i went to bed it that Zion is never going to be a good defender or be hustle player 
Since he's been here I've given his defense a pass and even his effort a pass. Last night for whatever reason was like a lightening bolt reality check that yea Zion is never going to give the effort you want him to.
LeBron at 39 (who does cherry pick fairly often but at this point he's earned the right to) had numerous full burst sprints down the court that turned into points based solely on his effort. I can't even picture in my head Zion doing that/displaying that kind of effort and it'll probably only get worse. He is so often the last one across mid court even when he doesn't have the ball it's kind of amazing.
Since he's been in the league I've always thought he had top 5 player potential and at times has looked it for semi-long stretches, but his effort kind of takes him out of that discussion for me.
Since he's been here I've given his defense a pass and even his effort a pass. Last night for whatever reason was like a lightening bolt reality check that yea Zion is never going to give the effort you want him to.
LeBron at 39 (who does cherry pick fairly often but at this point he's earned the right to) had numerous full burst sprints down the court that turned into points based solely on his effort. I can't even picture in my head Zion doing that/displaying that kind of effort and it'll probably only get worse. He is so often the last one across mid court even when he doesn't have the ball it's kind of amazing.
Since he's been in the league I've always thought he had top 5 player potential and at times has looked it for semi-long stretches, but his effort kind of takes him out of that discussion for me.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:51 am to iwyLSUiwy
Last night was an eye opener for my view of Zion. Maybe it was just me, but that was also the fattest I feel like I have seen him during the season. I truly wonder what he’s doing. It sucks because the talent there is unreal but he has a massive work ethic problem that’s hard to overlook.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:54 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:He's our only chance. Hope is waning, but he is our only chance.
I definitely don't think we should blow it up or even trade Zion
quote:Chuck and Shaq were talking about counting the # of times Zion hustles. But seriously, try to actually watch for this next game...the number of times BI and Zion turn around to head the other way in transition defense and are ahead of Herb Jones, and Herb Jones finishes 20 feet ahead of both making a play on the ball while the other 2 don't even get to the 3pt line. It happens over and over, even my kids point it out when it happens
LeBron at 39 (who does cherry pick fairly often but at this point he's earned the right to) had numerous full burst sprints down the court that turned into points based solely on his effort. I can't even picture in my head Zion doing that/displaying that kind of effort and it'll probably only get worse. He is so often the last one across mid court even when he doesn't have the ball it's kind of amazing.
quote:This is the scary part. Maybe not all, but I think most Pels either think or have thought that Zion has that top 5 ish potential. But do folks still think that? If so, why? I used to think that, I just can't think of any reasons why I should still think that.
Since he's been in the league I've always thought he had top 5 player potential and at times has looked it for semi-long stretches, but his effort kind of takes him out of that discussion for me.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:56 am to supe12sta12z
quote:
The Lakers gave us a taste of what a good playoffs defense looks like against this healthy team. And they exploited every flaw this team has in 1 game. That completely broke me.
Get outta here.
They did not play awesome defense.
They made a shite ton more threes at a higher rate than they normally do, and we shot 36% from the field.
JV was 1-7 from outside the paint, and all 7 of those shots were wide open shots that he usually hits at a much better rate.
CJ was 1-3 on his floater, 1-4 from 3 taking open shots, and 0-5 on open mid range shots.
BI was 1-4 on mid range shots, and 0-3 from 3, and those weren't bad mid range shots, they were in rythem with plenty of time and space.
We just couldn't shoot to save our lives last night. A ton of those shots were in and out. It was not their defense that made those shots difficult, b/c the vast majority of them were open looks.
And don't kid yourself, teams follow their leader. Zion was awful despite going 6-8 from the field. His teammates fed off his not giving a shite attitude.
Posted on 12/8/23 at 10:59 am to shel311
Zion looked like late career Zach Randolph last night. My ten year old asked me when did he get so fat after watching him play. It is dumbfounding that an elite athlete under the age of 25 is so fricking fat several weeks into a basketball season.
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