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Should we talk about our so called elite shooting coach?
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:21 am
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:21 am
Pels are dead last in FT%. They sucked last year in that too.
24th in 3pt%
25th in TS%
Is it that:
We just keep drafting or acquiring non-shooters and hope to turn them into shooters?
Vinson is just overrated and we need a new voice?
Or a combo of the two?
24th in 3pt%
25th in TS%
Is it that:
We just keep drafting or acquiring non-shooters and hope to turn them into shooters?
Vinson is just overrated and we need a new voice?
Or a combo of the two?
10
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:26 am to Fun Bunch
Give it 20 games before we decide that baw.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:28 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
We just keep drafting or acquiring non-shooters and hope to turn them into shooters?
While I agree with everything else, who are you referring to here? Herb?
Hawkins was considered one of the best shooters in the draft.
Trey Murphy was a very good shooter in college and it's carried over to the NBA.
Acquired McCollum, who has been an above average shooter since he came into the league.
I'll give you Dyson here too. Never known for his outside game.
This post was edited on 10/31/23 at 10:31 am
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:29 am to Fun Bunch
Yeah i think vinson is crazy overrated. He helped lonzo fix his shot and has been riding on that far too long. who else improved as a shooter here?
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:33 am to Fun Bunch
Its kind of early but I don’t think Vinson is some crazy elite coach either. I also think we don’t have very good shooters on this roster as well.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:39 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:Tyreke, Herb, and Ingram are a few more notable ones
Yeah i think vinson is crazy overrated. He helped lonzo fix his shot and has been riding on that far too long. who else improved as a shooter here?
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:43 am to eyeran
I don’t think you can say Herb yet. His shot this year has improved but its early. Even Ingram and Tyreke, is that solely because of Vinson or just player improvement? I’m sure he may have some input but I wouldn’t directly say that the improvement was because of Vinson.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:51 am to Pels_Yaz
Anthony Davis learned to shoot here and hasn't been able to shoot since he left. That is what initially made Vinson's name here.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:53 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:He was Ben Simmons in college, its why he was a 2nd rounder. He was 28% from the 3 and 60% from the line for his career. He's absolutely improved.
I don’t think you can say Herb yet. His shot this year has improved but its early.
quote:If we're going to pick and choose when to give credit, you could literally do that with everyone in every situation then.
Even Ingram and Tyreke, is that solely because of Vinson or just player improvement?
We're pissed now, so the improvements have nothing to do with Fred, the shitty shooters are Fred's fault.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 10:53 am to Fun Bunch
I don't think Vinson is overrated per se, he has helped many awful shooters become serviceable or even good. But I think one of the underlying factors is that his biggest successes have been guys with terrible form, guys Tyreke Evans and Lonzo Ball. But form is just one part of shooting and the rest can't be coached. If easy to coach up shooters than everyone in the League could just copy Steph's form and shoot like him, but instead there's an uncoachable talent part that separates guys.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:00 am to eyeran
I’m not pissed at Fred and saying the shitty shooters are all his fault. I am saying that sometimes he gets more credit than he deserves for players self improving and not enough blame for one’s who don’t.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:02 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:I have no idea, but if we'll blame him when our shooting numbers are low, you can't also not give him credit when guys have complete turnarounds after coming to this team.
Even Ingram and Tyreke, is that solely because of Vinson or just player improvement?
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:07 am to shel311
I don’t disagree. Again I’m not blaming shooting issues solely on Fred. But i do think he should get equal blame if certain player dont improve just like he gets credit for players who do. I just don’t think any blame gets on him for prospects in this tenure that don’t improve.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:09 am to Parrish
Time was/is also an issue. Im sure people remember Josh Hart talking about not getting much time to actually work with Fred because he had so many projects.
Griffin got here and decided JJ was the only shooter we needed in the building.
Getting Hawkins, but bringing in Matt Ryan on short notice, is the first time i've actually believed Griffin understands the need for shooting depth. Normally that spot would've been reserved for some guy that had no chance of actually impacting real nba games. Its been guys like Willy or Temple.
Griffin got here and decided JJ was the only shooter we needed in the building.
Getting Hawkins, but bringing in Matt Ryan on short notice, is the first time i've actually believed Griffin understands the need for shooting depth. Normally that spot would've been reserved for some guy that had no chance of actually impacting real nba games. Its been guys like Willy or Temple.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:19 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:You're asking for something that isn't realistic.
Again I’m not blaming shooting issues solely on Fred. But i do think he should get equal blame if certain player dont improve just like he gets credit for players who do.
The reason we even know a guy like Vinson's name, and maybe one other guy in the league(Spurs guy) is because what they do is almost impossible.
Bad shooters usually stay bad shooters, so when you find a coach that's actually turned guys around, they'll make names off of it.
He's never going to get "equal blame" for NOT pulling off a miracle.
This post was edited on 10/31/23 at 11:21 am
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:28 am to eyeran
“Bad shooters usually stay bad shooters, so when you find a coach that's actually turned guy's around, they'll make names off of it.
He's never going to get "equal blame" for NOT pulling off a miracle.”
- Yeah I think thats kind of a strange way to evaluate how good of a coach he is. So he gets credit on guys that improve but wont get blamed for ones who don’t? Man it would be nice to have a job where your evaluation is just based off the good you do and none of the bad. Personally, I think thats a problem.
Its like we shouldn’t have fired Aaron Nelson because he did help turn around careers of Nash and Grant Hill. But he shouldn’t get blamed for any of the health issues with Zion or BI.
He's never going to get "equal blame" for NOT pulling off a miracle.”
- Yeah I think thats kind of a strange way to evaluate how good of a coach he is. So he gets credit on guys that improve but wont get blamed for ones who don’t? Man it would be nice to have a job where your evaluation is just based off the good you do and none of the bad. Personally, I think thats a problem.
Its like we shouldn’t have fired Aaron Nelson because he did help turn around careers of Nash and Grant Hill. But he shouldn’t get blamed for any of the health issues with Zion or BI.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:34 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Pels are dead last in FT%. They sucked last year in that too.
24th in 3pt%
25th in TS%
Actually, last year's regular season numbers were:
15th in 3-pt% at 36.4%
11th in FT% at 79.3%
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:44 am to Fun Bunch
Mate, you’re going to get high blood pressure treating an 82 game season like football.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:48 am to NIH
If he’s also a Saints fan, you can’t blame him from being stressed out from the Saints as well lol.
Posted on 10/31/23 at 11:49 am to eyeran
quote:Right, it'd be like blaming a MLB hitter who hit .350 because he gets out 65% of the time and then saying, "if he gets credit for the good 35% of the time, he should get blame for the other 65%"
The reason we even know a guy like Vinson's name, and maybe one other guy in the league(Spurs guy) is because what they do is almost impossible.
Bad shooters usually stay bad shooters, so when you find a coach that's actually turned guys around, they'll make names off of it.
It's ignoring that what he does is never expected to be able to fix every player.
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