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Started By
Message
Some thoughts on the mentally ill, violence and mass shootings.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 10/26/23 at 4:47 pm
People don't fully understand how little mental illness has to do with acts of violence, gun or otherwise.
These mass shooters for instance may or may not be mentally ill. Mental illness, in many ways is incidental in all of this. These men commit these acts, not because they suffer from mental illness but because they're anti-social. They're criminal minded or they lack empathy and all the traits that make us human.
Anti-social personality disorder is not a neuro-psychiatric disorder, it's not an illness. It's a personality disorder. A defect of character. It's a flaw in who you are as a human being and it's utterly untreatable. Forensic Psychiatric Hospitals and Prisons are filled with men who have this defect. Some of these men are mentally ill, Some or not but they're all anti-social and it's that characterological defect that sets the stage for the sort of violence we've seen in Maine.
Bipolar disorder, chronic paranoid schizophrenia, major depression or other such illnesses don't cause or contribute to these horrible events. In fact, as with many of our social problems, the mentally ill are scapegoated in all this shite.
The fact of the matter is this. The mentally ill commit acts of violence against others (gun or otherwise) at the same rate as the general population. No more, no less. With that in mind, if you want to keep guns out the hands of the mentally ill, you do it not because they're a threat to you. You do it because they're 4 to 5 times more likely to use the gun on themselves.
It's men who have a missing chip (mentally ill or not) who commit these acts. Men who have systematically reduced their victims to objects or something no more than an insect. Something that you give no more thought to than wiping shite off your shoe.
Whether these men are born or created, well that's a different discussion but none of them "snap". They evolve to this. They become or self actualize into this.
I don't presume to know what the answer is to it all but what I do know is you could take every single gun from the mentally ill in this country and the only real outcome is more of them would be alive, and maybe that's a good enough reason to deny them their rights. But make no mistake about it. No mass shooter does this because he has mental illness. He does this because, through a process and over time, he's convinced himself you're the problem and that isn't an illness, it's a defect in who he is as a person, as a man.
Remove guns from the criminal minded, the aggrieved, the bitter and angry "victim", the empty vessel. Take them away from the man with the "missing chip". figure out how to do all that and you solve the problem.
These mass shooters for instance may or may not be mentally ill. Mental illness, in many ways is incidental in all of this. These men commit these acts, not because they suffer from mental illness but because they're anti-social. They're criminal minded or they lack empathy and all the traits that make us human.
Anti-social personality disorder is not a neuro-psychiatric disorder, it's not an illness. It's a personality disorder. A defect of character. It's a flaw in who you are as a human being and it's utterly untreatable. Forensic Psychiatric Hospitals and Prisons are filled with men who have this defect. Some of these men are mentally ill, Some or not but they're all anti-social and it's that characterological defect that sets the stage for the sort of violence we've seen in Maine.
Bipolar disorder, chronic paranoid schizophrenia, major depression or other such illnesses don't cause or contribute to these horrible events. In fact, as with many of our social problems, the mentally ill are scapegoated in all this shite.
The fact of the matter is this. The mentally ill commit acts of violence against others (gun or otherwise) at the same rate as the general population. No more, no less. With that in mind, if you want to keep guns out the hands of the mentally ill, you do it not because they're a threat to you. You do it because they're 4 to 5 times more likely to use the gun on themselves.
It's men who have a missing chip (mentally ill or not) who commit these acts. Men who have systematically reduced their victims to objects or something no more than an insect. Something that you give no more thought to than wiping shite off your shoe.
Whether these men are born or created, well that's a different discussion but none of them "snap". They evolve to this. They become or self actualize into this.
I don't presume to know what the answer is to it all but what I do know is you could take every single gun from the mentally ill in this country and the only real outcome is more of them would be alive, and maybe that's a good enough reason to deny them their rights. But make no mistake about it. No mass shooter does this because he has mental illness. He does this because, through a process and over time, he's convinced himself you're the problem and that isn't an illness, it's a defect in who he is as a person, as a man.
Remove guns from the criminal minded, the aggrieved, the bitter and angry "victim", the empty vessel. Take them away from the man with the "missing chip". figure out how to do all that and you solve the problem.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:06 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:I'd argue you can't really do what they do without being mentally ill.
People don't fully understand how little mental illness has to do with acts of violence, gun or otherwise.
quote:What you're describing is someone who is psychotic, not anti-social, which is a mental illness.
These mass shooters for instance may or may not be mentally ill. Mental illness, in many ways is incidental in all of this. These men commit these acts, not because they suffer from mental illness but because they're anti-social. They're criminal minded or they lack empathy and all the traits that make us human.
quote:Being anti social doesn't make you shoot up random people in public places. Being mentally ill does.
Anti-social personality disorder is not a neuro-psychiatric disorder, it's not an illness. It's a personality disorder. A defect of character. It's a flaw in who you are as a human being and it's utterly untreatable
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:18 pm to shel311
quote:
I'd argue you can't really do what they do without being mentally ill.
Some people are just broken. Call it evil. Call it sick. Humans are capable of doing horrible things to each other and always have been. That doesn't make them mentally ill. That suggests they have no choice in the matter. Some people just make the choice to do harm to others. Some people enjoy it.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:21 pm to Pandy Fackler
War and Peace was shorter than your post...
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:43 pm to shel311
quote:
I'd argue you can't really do what they do without being mentally ill.
Of course they can. Mass shooters do it weekly in our ghettos and inner cities. Gangland men are some of the most prolific mass shooters in the country. None of them are mentally but they're all anti-social.
quote:
What you're describing is someone who is psychotic, not anti-social, which is a mental illness.
None of these mass shooters heard voices or saw things that compelled them to enage in these acts. No unseen internal force commanded them and that's what psychosis is. Psychosis is a symptom of a disease, not a personality disorder.
Psychosis is drug induced or a symptom of a debilitating neuro-psychiatric illness.
To refer to these men as psychotic or mentally ill is to also characterize the Hamas terrorists who roamed through that hamlet, indiscriminately killing as mentally ill and maybe they are, but mental illness isn't why men like this do what they do.
Mass shooters of all stripes do what they do because they've convinced themselves you're the problem.
quote:
Being anti social doesn't make you shoot up random people in public places. Being mentally ill does.
Yes it does and no it doesn't.
Black men do it weekly in urban settings and the mentally ill commit violence at no greater rate than the general population.
This post was edited on 10/26/23 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:45 pm to BigAppleTiger
quote:
Some people are just broken. Call it evil. Call it sick. Humans are capable of doing horrible things to each other and always have been. That doesn't make them mentally ill. That suggests they have no choice in the matter. Some people just make the choice to do harm to others. Some people enjoy it.
All of your post is true but I really like the emboldened part.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:47 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:+1
People don't fully understand how little mental illness has to do with acts of violence, gun or otherwise.
These mass shooters for instance may or may not be mentally ill. Mental illness, in many ways is incidental in all of this. These men commit these acts, not because they suffer from mental illness but because they're anti-social. They're criminal minded or they lack empathy and all the traits that make us human.
Anti-social personality disorder is not a neuro-psychiatric disorder, it's not an illness. It's a personality disorder. A defect of character. It's a flaw in who you are as a human being and it's utterly untreatable. Forensic Psychiatric Hospitals and Prisons are filled with men who have this defect. Some of these men are mentally ill, Some or not but they're all anti-social and it's that characterological defect that sets the stage for the sort of violence we've seen in Maine.
Bipolar disorder, chronic paranoid schizophrenia, major depression or other such illnesses don't cause or contribute to these horrible events. In fact, as with many of our social problems, the mentally ill are scapegoated in all this shite.
The fact of the matter is this. The mentally ill commit acts of violence against others (gun or otherwise) at the same rate as the general population. No more, no less. With that in mind, if you want to keep guns out the hands of the mentally ill, you do it not because they're a threat to you. You do it because they're 4 to 5 times more likely to use the gun on themselves.
It's men who have a missing chip (mentally ill or not) who commit these acts. Men who have systematically reduced their victims to objects or something no more than an insect. Something that you give no more thought to than wiping shite off your shoe.
Whether these men are born or created, well that's a different discussion but none of them "snap". They evolve to this. They become or self actualize into this.
I don't presume to know what the answer is to it all but what I do know is you could take every single gun from the mentally ill in this country and the only real outcome is more of them would be alive, and maybe that's a good enough reason to deny them their rights. But make no mistake about it. No mass shooter does this because he has mental illness. He does this because, through a process and over time, he's convinced himself you're the problem and that isn't an illness, it's a defect in who he is as a person, as a man.
Remove guns from the criminal minded, the aggrieved, the bitter and angry "victim", the empty vessel. Take them away from the man with the "missing chip". figure out how to do all that and you solve the problem
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:48 pm to Kafka
quote:
+1
What does that mean Kafka? I can't tell with you.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:50 pm to Pandy Fackler
This disorder. That disorder.
How many people are 100% normal?
How many people are 100% normal?
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:54 pm to LSURussian
quote:
War and Peace was shorter than your post...
And more worth the read….that drivel above is a pathetic excuse of what is plaguing this country.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:54 pm to L1C4
quote:
How many people are 100% normal?
Just Oldmanbeasley. Everyone else is abnormal.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 5:57 pm to OldmanBeasley
quote:
Everyone else is abnormal.
Don't disrespect your namesake like that.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:01 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
And more worth the read….that drivel above is a pathetic excuse of what is plaguing this country.
I'd like OweO's opinion on this.
This post was edited on 10/26/23 at 6:02 pm
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:11 pm to Pandy Fackler
Hot take:
I really wish people would shut the frick up about mental illness every time kids get shot. We have a fricking MURDER problem in this country and everyone just wants to look for excuses.
You’re gonna sit here and tell me the US of A is more mentally ill than the rest of the civilized world? Cmon now. We have different laws and governance in this country and THAT is what allows deranged people to shoot kids.
I really wish people would shut the frick up about mental illness every time kids get shot. We have a fricking MURDER problem in this country and everyone just wants to look for excuses.
You’re gonna sit here and tell me the US of A is more mentally ill than the rest of the civilized world? Cmon now. We have different laws and governance in this country and THAT is what allows deranged people to shoot kids.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:11 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
I'd like OweO's opinion on this
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:16 pm to TCO
quote:
Hot take:
I really wish people would shut the frick up about mental illness every time kids get shot. We have a fricking MURDER problem in this country and everyone just wants to look for excuses.
You’re gonna sit here and tell me the US of A is more mentally ill than the rest of the civilized world? Cmon now. We have different laws and governance in this country and THAT is what allows deranged people to shoot kids.
It's not a hot take as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not "looking for excuses". In fact, I'm saying mental illness isn't a contributing factor in all this.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:21 pm to Broski
quote:
Don't disrespect your namesake like that.
How dare you make such an accusation sir. Oldmanbeasley would never disrespect the GOAT. Write that down.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:25 pm to Pandy Fackler
This guy was hearing voices. He was mentally ill. Not all mass shooters are mentally ill, but this guy definitely was.
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:27 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
Remove guns from the criminal minded, the aggrieved, the bitter and angry "victim", the empty vessel. Take them away from the man with the "missing chip". figure out how to do all that and you solve the problem.
The question you're not asking for whatever reason, is why, prior to the early 90s, were these types of shootings exceptionally rare, even though access to firearms were *much* easier?
What changed?
Posted on 10/26/23 at 6:30 pm to Pandy Fackler
We talking about the 15 killings every weekend in Chicago?
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