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Started By
Message
re: "Constitutional carry” passes in the committee and will now move on to the House.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:19 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:19 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
***(Setting aside the question of whether the 2A ... or the Bill of Rights as a whole ... was ever intended to limit anyone other than the FEDERAL government, as compared to state/local).
It also is meant to limit the states, to a certain degree. That’s why the Supremacy Clause, 10th Amendment, and the incorporation doctrine exists.
1
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:20 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Well, we do require them to get training (Driver Ed) and a license.
Driving isn't a God given Constitutional Right, so maybe we require training/tests for voting or speaking in public or for the press...that would be more of an equivalent I would guess.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:22 pm to CreoleTigerEsq
quote:To the extent that it is valid (which I dispute vigorously), it would not change the INTENT of the Bill of Rights as drafted and as enacted more than a century before someone crafted the arguments underlying the incorporation doctrine.quote:incorporation doctrine
Setting aside the question of whether the 2A ... or the Bill of Rights as a whole ... was ever intended to limit anyone other than the FEDERAL government, as compared to state/local)
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:23 pm to KAGTASTIC
quote:
I guess we should put laws in place to prevent people from owning cars and driving based on this same assessment.
There are laws in place to suspend driving privileges for people with multiple convictions for DWI and driving under suspension.
Also, you have to undergo training and pass a written and skills test to get a driver’s license, so no dice on this argument.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:27 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Apparently, you did not understand the graphic. It covers that issue.
Oh I understood the graphic and the colors used. I just wanted to lessen the impact with another.
Not 1 state is a definite loss of all civil rights. Nice try!!
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:35 pm to TBoy
quote:
I hope it stays that way. Unpermitted concealed firearms just legalizes the gang bangers who carry unpermitted concealed weapons
In what world can you make the make sense?? What it does is keep only the criminals with the freedom to carry and average Joe that follows the law can’t. You’re dumb.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:39 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
It seems the LA voters didn't believe JBE for who he is politically.
Anti-abortion?
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:44 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Well, we do require them to get training (Driver Ed) and a license.
That’s because driving is a privilege, not a right. Are you really a lawyer? Because you constantly sound like an ignorant shill, who wants people to think he’s intelligent (and a conservative) while he spouts ignorant democrat talking points daily.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:46 pm to troyt37
quote:You made the comparison, genius. I just exposed its obvious flaw.
troyt37
EDIT: MY error. It was not Troy who made the stupid analogy between gun carry rights and driving rights. He just did not understand it.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:55 pm to Rabby
Interesting take. I have a question then. Would you still stand by this if the classes and permits were free? Because about 100% of the "range officers and firearms instructors" that I argue this topic with have a monetary benefit in REQUIRING the classes they teach. Now, would you still be in favor of this if you had to provide these classes without getting paid for them?
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:59 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
You made the comparison, genius. I just exposed its obvious flaw.
Link?
Driving is a constitutional right now?
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:06 pm to troyt37
quote:
Driving is a constitutional right now?
It was not ME who compared gun carry rights and driving, Hawking, and I certainly never said that driving was a Constitutional right.
quote:Again, I just shined some light on the patent stupidity of the comparison.
after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.quote:Well, we do require them to get training (Driver Ed) and a license.
I guess we should put laws in place to prevent people from owning cars and driving based on this same assessment. (KAG)
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:11 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Posted by KAGTASTIC online on 5/17/23 at 1:01 pm to Rabby quote: But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms. I guess we should put laws in place to prevent people from owning cars and driving based on this same assessment.
Try to keep up…
You can apologize by addressing me as daddy from now on.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:12 pm to troyt37
quote:
than have their rights as a human being violated by the government.
They already forfeited the right when they committed a violent felony. No takebacks. Sorry.
But if it makes you feel any better, they’re still carrying guns anyway.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:17 pm to Rabby
quote:
As a longtime firearms instructor and range officer, I support the 2nd Amendment.
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Basic concepts such as muzzle discipline, trigger discipline, charging and clearing a chamber, press checking a chamber, and sight alignment are not innate skills to all humans. These necessary skills are taught and maintained. I have literally seen people show up with .9mm pistol in a box and bag and load .40 S&W ammunition into the magazine before wondering why the chamber would not close into battery!
People are inherently lazy and will take the path of least resistance.
Having them attend a simple safety class and display a reasonable level of skill is not an infringement - it is part of that whole "well regulated" concept in my view. It is a completely reasonable expectation for their safety and for the safety of everyone around them.
In fact, I think that some firearms safety training should be required for all citizens as part of their early education. If we view ourselves as part of the militia, why are we not given some basic training to make that viable?
Think this through for a moment. Do we want to permit all of the lowest IQ and poorest maturity people to have the ability to carry concealed with no standards, training or qualification?
Take a moment to ponder those special few...
Seems scary to me.
I took numerous classes and fired countless rounds before even considering carrying a firearm. I cannot imagine any responsible person not wanting to be skilled before doing so.
None of what you posted means shite. A person with a 60 IQ has the same rights as someone with a 160 IQ. You don't have to be smart, you don't have to be responsible, you don't have to be anything but a non-felonious citizen. And "well regulated" has nothing to do with the right to bear arms.
Why is it you liberals can't seem to understand, "shall not be infringed"? It's not hard.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:17 pm to ProbyOne
quote:
They already forfeited the right when they committed a violent felony. No takebacks. Sorry.
Yet they forfeit no other constitutionally protected right. It’s nothing but a form of gun control the right will get behind.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:23 pm to KAGTASTIC
quote:
Driving isn't a God given Constitutional Right
Neither is voting.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:23 pm to TBoy
quote:So they're going to do it anyway? This won't change that, but it will make criminals wary of possible gun holders, knowing citizens don't have to take classes and pay fees to get a CC.
Unpermitted concealed firearms just legalizes the gang bangers who carry unpermitted concealed weapons everywhere
I just hope the legislature has the override votes now, and that they won't get a couple of turncoats to change their votes like last time. Does anyone know if this is the case?
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:25 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Well, we do require them to get training (Driver Ed) and a license.
Only for driving on public roads. There is no requirement to possess a driver's license to purchase a vehicle nor to drive it on private property.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:27 pm to jdd48
quote:This. Three republican legislators and one democratic legislator who all let it be know that they supported the bill didn't show up to work on the day it was voted on.
Well not the only reason. Also because the legislature is also full of lapdogs that piss their pants at the mere thought of trying to buck the LA governor.
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