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re: How is Lebron at 38 still able to outperform MJ at 34.

Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:38 pm to
Posted by Smurph33
South
Member since Jan 2021
57 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:38 pm to
And the reverse is never talked about, could you imagine what KD or Giannis or Lebron could do defensively in the 80s when you were allowed to hand check?! KD hand checking on defense is terrifying haha
Posted by Keltic Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2006
19920 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:42 pm to
"Feast on the defenses of old"? Funny, no one, of either era has said that. Barkley put it this way: "with the middle, the paint being so wide open I'd score 40-50 points a game".Do you honestly believe that the old Bruise Brothers, those Pistons, would let any one drive the lane & get an easy lay up ? Ever seen those videos of Kevin McHale leveling someone in the lane? Bob McAdoo's style of defense? As opposed to today's Matador defense? Get real.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
30041 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

Hey guys this one team was full of thugs and and the refs let them hammer people relentlessly for a couple years. So they were a fair representation of the average nba team for 15-20 years


I'm not saying the Piston's were a fair representation of the average NBA team. But the league was more physical overall at that time...even if the Pistons were considered to be the most physical. But specific to Jordan slowing down in his early/mid 30's relative to Lebron, it's not a secret Detroit's MO in defending Jordan was simply to beat him up. With the league already being physical, and the most physical team purposely trying to hurt you, that takes a toll players of this era probably didn't have to deal with.
Posted by bulldog95
North Louisiana
Member since Jan 2011
20871 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:06 pm to
Jordan had to play the pistons defense, knicks defense, Lakers defense, Celtics defense, and many others that put you down hard.

Lebron would have had success also against those defenses but his body would be beat up a lot more than it is now playing todays defenses
This post was edited on 2/8/23 at 1:07 pm
Posted by Zendog
Santa Barbara
Member since Feb 2019
5027 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:27 pm to
Defense
Posted by Zendog
Santa Barbara
Member since Feb 2019
5027 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:29 pm to
Let's see Jame's numbers if he had to go up against Joe Dumars
Posted by Dipdash
Member since Jan 2023
9 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:42 pm to
Not to mention it's way less physical, which is connected to lack of defense.
Posted by DownSouthCrawfish
Lift every voice and sing
Member since Oct 2011
38082 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

Let's see Jame's numbers if he had to go up against Joe Dumars
this is bait
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
49622 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

That is despite 2022 nba players being much better shooters


Maybe from 3, but there’s more dunks now too
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
36679 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 3:17 pm to
George Karl: NBA has steroid issue

quote:

I’m talking about performance-enhancing drugs—like steroids, human growth hormone, and so on. It’s obvious some of our players are doping. How are some guys getting older—yet fitter? How are they recovering from injuries so fast? Why the hell are they going to Germany in the off-season? I doubt it’s for the sauerkraut.

More likely it’s for the newest, hard-to-detect blood boosters and PEDs they have in Europe. Unfortunately, drug testing always seems to be a couple steps behind drug hiding. Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test. I think we want the best athletes to succeed, not the biggest, richest cheaters employing the best scientists. But I don’t know what to do about it.
Posted by uptowntiger84
uptown
Member since Jul 2011
4112 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 4:30 pm to
You seem to forget to mention that LeBitch sits out games to "rest up". Where as Jordan was out there almost every night getting the crap beat out of him by defenses.
Posted by ZenFNmaster
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Nov 2007
2709 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 4:48 pm to
Damn near any Bulls team that MJ played for would have eaten the souls of any team LeBron was on. Even the Doug Collins teams.
Posted by Keltic Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2006
19920 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 5:37 pm to
"Punching someone not a foul"? The point is if today's player, back then as well, if he gets punched once, twice in the first quarter, he won't be driving in for a lay up in the rest of the game. What's also missing the point is any era's superstar would excel in either era. Superstars are superstars. It's the rest of the rosters who would not be having 50 point games. Today, 50 points in a game is no big deal anymore.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 6:16 pm to
quote:

2022 teams made 40.6 shots on 88 attempts per game.


a good chunk of that is 3 pt line. its not better defense. its shot selection.
Posted by OGtigerfan87
North La
Member since Feb 2019
3529 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 6:31 pm to
It’s pretty simple. Who was the better offensive player? Jordan. Who was the better defensive player? Jordan by a wider margin. Who was a better leader/more clutch? Jordan by even more. There is no legitimate argument for Lebron only people with recency bias who want to have witnessed history
Posted by LittleRockHog501
Member since Nov 2011
2521 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 6:39 pm to
Maybe because of the increase in 3s taken a game. A decrease in overall FG% but a bump in efficiency due to the extra points being scored per possession?
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
10969 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 6:41 pm to
quote:

Field goal percentages were higher throughout the 70s 80s n early 90s


Surely it has nothing to do with the 3 pointer taking over?
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
87780 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 6:58 pm to
People confuse pace and the 3point shot with better/worse offenses/defenses. It was literally never easier to make a FG (49.2% league average) in league history than Jordan’s rookie year. People think the 102.2 pts per 100 possessions in 1999 are some type of incredible defensive schemes, but I say the league just really sucked at shooting. Let’s isolate defense from the equation and just focus on the free throw, where no defense can be played - the stretch from 1993-94 season to 1998-99 saw the league average FT% plummet. Since the merger, league average has been 75.6%. That stretch ranged from 72.8%-74.0%, but to give you an idea of just how big that variation is, consider that the 74% number is roughly the 9th percentile since the merger, and the 72.8% is less than the 1st percentile. That’s atrocious.

The fundamentals were bad and the game was bad, and it’s just plain lazy to say it was good defense. Jordan’s dominant stretch through his first retirement was played in a game that was far more similar to 2023 than it was to 1998.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
52734 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 7:56 pm to
Jordan at 34 - 82 games
Lebron - 44 games


You’re dumb
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35989 posts
Posted on 2/8/23 at 8:09 pm to
If MJ could take 4 steps without dribbling they might’ve needed to add an extra comma to his scoring total
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