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re: If Aranda substitutes, TCU loses and LSU goes to 4.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:33 am to The Albatross
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:33 am to The Albatross
quote:
A sub can’t interfere with the offense getting the ball snapped by slow rolling onto the field. We would’ve seen this by now.
What are you talking about? This happens almost every game where the play clock is running down and the ref stands over the ball. The defense is allowed to sub when the offense does. Some douchey coaches will have their guys walk slowly on and off the field to force timeouts by the offense.
This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 8:34 am
2
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:40 am to Timeoday
Aranda made some bad decisions in that game but that wasn’t one of them.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:40 am to The Pirate King
quote:
Some douchey coaches will have their guys walk slowly on and off the field to force timeouts by the offense.
My point exactly. Where does it say the defense CANNOT substitute on 4th down if the offense is also substituting?
After all, Dykes was out of timeouts. In the very least, Aranda calls timeout to FREEZE the kicker.
This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 8:45 am
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:43 am to Timeoday
ZVR on Twitter said teams are allowed a "mayday" play which allows them to rush subs on the field and snap the ball quickly without having to wait on the defense to sub. He said they called mayday at LSU but wasn't sure what the official term is.
TIFWIW. I thought the same as you before he pointed that out.
TIFWIW. I thought the same as you before he pointed that out.
This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 8:44 am
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:43 am to Timeoday
quote:
My point exactly. Where does it say the defense CANNOT substituteon 4th down if the offense if also substituting?
It's clearly stated in rule book.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:44 am to Timeoday
It doesn’t matter. We still have to win out.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:47 am to notbilly
Why would it not have worked? There was like 8 seconds left and tcu changed players for kicking unit, I thought the other team was allowed to sub in additional players also and ump would not stop time.. I swear if seen it done
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:51 am to The Pirate King
Ok, so we’re all half-right. The offense is not currently allowed to snap the ball until the defensive player being subbed has left the field and the substituting player has made it to the defensive side of the ball. HOWEVER, and this is the catch because it’s ridiculously subjective, the rule states that the defense must “react promptly” with its subs. So I guess they could be flagged for DoG if they refs determined they were stalling for time? They have a change coming on this rule to allow the defense to sub on any given play in the first 10 seconds of the play clock, but it isn’t in effect for this season.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:53 am to GeauxLSU17
quote:
Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:10. Facing fourth down and three, Team A immediately hurries its field goal team onto the field. RULING: Team B should reasonably expect that Team A will attempt a field goal in this situation and should have its field-goal defense unit ready. The umpire will not stand over the ball, as there should be no issue of the defense being uncertain about the next play.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:54 am to Timeoday
If this is official, it should explain the rules.
Approved Ruling 3-5-2 LINK
Approved Ruling 3-5-2 LINK
quote:
VIII. Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:10. Facing fourth down and three, Team A immediately hurries its field goal team onto the field. RULING: Team B should reasonably expect that Team A will attempt a field goal in this situation and should have its field-goal defense unit ready. The umpire will not stand over the ball, as there should be no issue of the defense being uncertain about the next play.
IX. Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:30. Facing fourth down and three, Team A gives no indication as to its next play until the game clock reads 0:10. They then rush their field goal unit onto the field, and Team B then hurries to respond. RULING: The umpire moves to the ball to prevent the snap until Team B has had a reasonable opportunity to get its field-goal defense unit onto the field. The umpire will step away when he judges that the defense has had enough time. If the game clock reads 0:00 before the ball is snapped after the umpire steps away, the half is over.
This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 8:57 am
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:56 am to GeauxLSU17
Please show where in the rulebook. On FR59, section e, it clearly states:
I do not see an exception clause anywhere.
quote:
When Team A sends in its substitutes, the officials will not allow the ball to be snapped until Team B has been given an opportunity to substitute. While in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, Team A is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage with the obvious attempt of creating a defensive disadvantage. If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitute
I do not see an exception clause anywhere.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:56 am to Turf Taint
quote:
Beat FSU
That game has no bearing on our current rank. A 10-1 LSU woudlve probaky still been #5 and at best #4 and we would still have to beat Georgia to be in, so that loss is doing very little to hurt us. Never thought I’d say that.
Beating Alabama and going 6-1 in the SEC will fix a lot of woes
Posted on 11/23/22 at 8:59 am to Melkor
quote:
Please show where in the rulebook. On FR59, section e, it clearly states:
Look above your comment
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:05 am to GeauxLSU17
Let me clear this up for yall. If Aranda would have had some balls, ON the 4th down and 2 yards in his previous possession with only 1:45 seconds left in the game he should have went for it. If they make the 1st down, that's ball game. Baylor easily runs out the clock. Your team is 4-3 in the conference. Now you are 4-4. What did he have to lose. Horrible decision
This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 9:06 am
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:06 am to Timeoday
- Assuming Georgia takes care of business against GT, then they'll be in no matter what.
- I think should Michigan lose to Ohio State, then they are out. Their schedule is downright atrocious Struggling against lowly Maryland and Illinois isn't going to help them either. However, it may get a little hairy if Ohio State loses a very close game against Michigan. I think everyone - Playoff committee included - looks at Ohio State as a better "team" with a better roster.
- Let us all not forget that money matters. USC concerns me. Finishing off the season with wins against UCLA, Notre Dame, and Oregon carry some weight. They are a premier "brand". People want to see them - despite their defense being so porous. I think they committee would do anything to keep TCU out of the Playoffs. They don't move the needle.
- I think should Michigan lose to Ohio State, then they are out. Their schedule is downright atrocious Struggling against lowly Maryland and Illinois isn't going to help them either. However, it may get a little hairy if Ohio State loses a very close game against Michigan. I think everyone - Playoff committee included - looks at Ohio State as a better "team" with a better roster.
- Let us all not forget that money matters. USC concerns me. Finishing off the season with wins against UCLA, Notre Dame, and Oregon carry some weight. They are a premier "brand". People want to see them - despite their defense being so porous. I think they committee would do anything to keep TCU out of the Playoffs. They don't move the needle.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:09 am to Timeoday
quote:
In the very least, Aranda calls timeout to FREEZE the kicker.
Tell me. Which situation has a greater likelihood of the kicker missing the field goal?
A) Entire TCU field goal unit must rush onto the field and kicker doesn't even have time to take his steps before the snap
B) Timeout is called, giving TCU plenty of time to get their field goal unit onto the field.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:25 am to Timeoday
I like where we sit. Everything is in our hands.
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:32 am to Scotcho Libre
quote:
VIII. Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:10. Facing fourth down and three, Team A immediately hurries its field goal team onto the field. RULING: Team B should reasonably expect that Team A will attempt a field goal in this situation and should have its field-goal defense unit ready. The umpire will not stand over the ball, as there should be no issue of the defense being uncertain about the next play.
IX. Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:30. Facing fourth down and three, Team A gives no indication as to its next play until the game clock reads 0:10. They then rush their field goal unit onto the field, and Team B then hurries to respond. RULING: The umpire moves to the ball to prevent the snap until Team B has had a reasonable opportunity to get its field-goal defense unit onto the field. The umpire will step away when he judges that the defense has had enough time. If the game clock reads 0:00 before the ball is snapped after the umpire steps away, the half is over.
So Sonny Dykes sends out a skill set pass play unit that sets up for field goal while Aranda sends out field goal skill set defense unit. Dykes then runs a pass play with his skill set unit against a field goal prevent unit.
Why aren't more coaches running out of timeouts and using this strategy? Because the defense CAN substitute!!
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:37 am to SUB
quote:
Tell me. Which situation has a greater likelihood of the kicker missing the field goal?
A) Entire TCU field goal unit must rush onto the field and kicker doesn't even have time to take his steps before the snap
B) Timeout is called, giving TCU plenty of time to get their field goal unit onto the field.
They practice it in a rush. Teams FREEZE kickers all the time. Did Dykes have them practice a "rush to be frozen play"? FREEZING creates pressure, especially when you are not at home!!
Posted on 11/23/22 at 9:46 am to Timeoday
quote:
I will admit what TCU's Sonny Dykes did with 15 seconds left on the clock I have not ever seen. However, if Aranda had slow walked a sub or two, the game clock goes to zero and the Baylor Bears win.
Say it ain't so.
It ain't so.
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