- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: USA will have Socialized Medicine in 20 Years - It's Inevitable
Posted on 7/14/22 at 1:48 pm to Bronc
Posted on 7/14/22 at 1:48 pm to Bronc
quote:
Sure, but ok. If by some magic, bootstrap lectures and fat shaming was the cheat code to finally break through 100 years of barriers that have eluded the passage of some form of comprehensive UHC, by all means, write up the talking points and let's do it. But I think it is the height of self-centered narcissm and arrogance to think that what has eluded Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Clinton, Obama, and every UHC advocate in the last 100 years was they just forget to offer more performative signaling to a slice of right-winger that really want to hear people tut tut fatties, black people, and poor people.
I'm getting the sense I'm not dealing with an honest broker here, but a few points.
- Inherent in your point about performative signaling is the acknowledgement that your prior efforts - a century's worth - have been wholly unsuccessful. I might suggest that the more recent decades of the 100 years of failure may have some relation to telling people who don't have healthcare that it's not their fault but is the fault of the people they demand pay for said healthcare. But perhaps I'm wrong, and candidly, long may your ilk's ineptitude on the topic continue.
- Second, it's insane to me (I suppose not really) that you don't think the concepts of collectivist healthcare and a government that encourages citizens to responsibly contribute to and use the system is a good idea. That proposing the combination results in the histrionics above is telling.
- Third, I note that this about the 4th exchange we've had where you don't address the idea that people benefitting from a hypothetical system that will by it's nature sustain and protect their life might be asked to contribute substantively to it.
2
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:16 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
your prior efforts - a century's worth
lol, now we adding immortality an/or time travel to my supposed abilities to influence UHC outcomes to keep this silly exercise going? UHC has had varying reasons for either failing or falling short of the larger goal of UHC. And no historical scholar I have read places the blame at the feet of not fat shaming enough or tut tutting the poor.
But like I said, if you really think what is needed to overcome the AMA, insurers, drug companies, and their politicians when they flood the nation with propaganda, scare tactics, and political bribes is a little sprinkle of fat shaming and tut tutting the poors....write up the talking points!
This post was edited on 7/14/22 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:21 pm to Bronc
These are two deflections you've already used. But I think we're on the same page that the campaign for UHC - which you obviously support - has not been successful despite the best efforts of folks who are similarly-minded (as you). In light of that, it's certainly in my interest that you keep the message the same as it's been for the last 30 years.
Anyway, 5th interaction without hearing your thoughts on the radical idea of asking people set to benefit from UHC to actually pay income taxes.
Anyway, 5th interaction without hearing your thoughts on the radical idea of asking people set to benefit from UHC to actually pay income taxes.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:24 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
want better than standard care; do better. pretty simple.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:31 pm to deeprig9
quote:
USA will have no Medicine in 20 Years - It's Inevitable
FIFY
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:33 pm to Klark Kent
quote:i agree with this. but i think everyone should have standard care that isn't an ER visit that is financially crippling.
want better than standard care; do better. pretty simple.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:33 pm to Pettifogger
No one has mentioned the racket that is JCAHO.They are doing their part to increase healthcare costs and force socialized medicine.They were constantly coming up with “standards” nurses had to meet to stay in compliance.Ex- when I started ICU when admitting pts.there were 3 forms-assessment,history,and list of medications to fill out.When I retired there was 18.
When JCAHO instituted the pain control standards,(pain as the 5’th vital sign),the hospital had a clipboard nurse just to go around making sure pt’s pain was being addressed.That was in addition to the other clipboard nurse that went around making sure other JCAHO standards were being met.
I am convinced JCAHO was being bribed by Purdue to push opioids.
A friend was promoted to supervise 7 non medical departments in the hospital,when he took over none of the departments were in compliance with JCHO,he busted his butt to get them all in compliance.Then JCAHO hired a new guy for those sections who immediately rewrote all the the standards so the 7 departments were no longer in compliance.
So the guy quits JCAHO and starts working as a consultant to help hospitals meet the new standards.Charged something Ike $100,000 to come in and get hospital in compliance with the standards he wrote.
I could write for hours all the bs standards added by JCAHO during my years.
Addressing the VA model of healthcare.A good friend is a NP at VA.In an 8 hour day she sees 14 patients and she has 2 RN assistants.
My wife works for a Cardiologist,on clinic days they see avg 50 patients together ,the Dr. has 1 RN and a scribe,wife has neither.
Days the Dr.is in cath lab she sees 15-16 pts a day with basically no assistance.
If we go to VA model it would probably take a year or longer to get an appointment.
.
When JCAHO instituted the pain control standards,(pain as the 5’th vital sign),the hospital had a clipboard nurse just to go around making sure pt’s pain was being addressed.That was in addition to the other clipboard nurse that went around making sure other JCAHO standards were being met.
I am convinced JCAHO was being bribed by Purdue to push opioids.
A friend was promoted to supervise 7 non medical departments in the hospital,when he took over none of the departments were in compliance with JCHO,he busted his butt to get them all in compliance.Then JCAHO hired a new guy for those sections who immediately rewrote all the the standards so the 7 departments were no longer in compliance.
So the guy quits JCAHO and starts working as a consultant to help hospitals meet the new standards.Charged something Ike $100,000 to come in and get hospital in compliance with the standards he wrote.
I could write for hours all the bs standards added by JCAHO during my years.
Addressing the VA model of healthcare.A good friend is a NP at VA.In an 8 hour day she sees 14 patients and she has 2 RN assistants.
My wife works for a Cardiologist,on clinic days they see avg 50 patients together ,the Dr. has 1 RN and a scribe,wife has neither.
Days the Dr.is in cath lab she sees 15-16 pts a day with basically no assistance.
If we go to VA model it would probably take a year or longer to get an appointment.
.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:36 pm to deeprig9
The USA will be part of China then, so you will be part of their healthcare. I won’t be because I’ll be dead by then.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:38 pm to Centinel
quote:
Please tell me you're not that fricking naïve.
You did read the part where I said “but we won’t “, right? I mean it was right there… connected to the preceding sentence. It was in the same size font and style and everything. The entire post was 2 sentences… the one you missed was the 2nd sentence. Sometimes you gotta give a story a chance to catch your attention… maybe a few pages or a chapter or maybe a second sentence. But, I suppose believing someone would read an entire post is part of my naïveté.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:38 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
In light of that, it's certainly in my interest that you keep the message the same as it's been for the last 30 years.
Finally!
A lot closer to actual honesty when you(almost) drop the disingenuous concern-troll schtick about better messaging and demanding performative gestures to your liking as if it serves an actual purpose for this conversation besides your attempts at sea-lioning.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:41 pm to LSUA 75
quote:
If we go to VA model
I think we'll go public option before we go full VA model. Public option leverages existing delivery infrastructure immediately.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:48 pm to Bronc
quote:
A lot closer to actual honesty when you(almost) drop the disingenuous concern-troll schtick about better messaging and demanding performative gestures to your liking as if it serves an actual purpose for this conversation besides your attempts at sea-lioning.
OK, well kudos to you on this variation on a prior deflection, I guess. I'm a very open conservative, so pretending I'm hiding the ball on being opposed to your agenda is interesting, albeit pretty silly.
But I've also indicated that on a very localized level I'd be supportive of collective healthcare, so I do have some interest in breaking through the barriers to socialized HC among people resolute against the idea who are otherwise like minded (even if largely theoretical).
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:49 pm to WW
quote:
Medicare routinely denies services you provider orders and forces you to pay out of pocket or walk away. Much of the administrative costs and patients flooding the emergency rooms, again driving up costs, are those on government plans. I see nothing positive about eliminating private insurers.
Medicare seldom denies much IF you have traditional Medicare. If you have a managed care Medicare plan, well, good luck on getting much of anything beyond the basics. It's all those Medicare plans managed by insurance companies that deny, deny, deny.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:52 pm to winkchance
quote:
USA will have no Medicine in 20 Years - It's Inevitable
FIFY
If so, I have no problems offering my expert medical care to the highest bidder.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 2:55 pm to LaLadyinTx
quote:
Medicare seldom denies much IF you have traditional Medicare.
Part D being a huge exception.
quote:
If you have a managed care Medicare plan, well, good luck on getting much of anything beyond the basics.
You're right here. But they give you the basics cheaply and efficiently, and have a larger drug formulary. Just...don't get cancer.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:08 pm to Old Money
quote:
Only on TD will people white knight for our current system. Incredible
The system we currently have is still probably better than single payer.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:10 pm to deeprig9
ain't the worst thing in the world, insurance companies and lawyers have fricked up the health care system in this country, fubar-ed it
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:22 pm to 777Tiger
Acquisitions have also torn the sector apart. Like, when I started in PBM in 2000, we were Advance PCS. A merger between Advance Paradigm and PCS Health. Then, Advance PCS merged w Caremark in 2004. Then... Caremark PCS merged with CVS in 2007 to create CVS Caremark. Many here use Caremark PCS as your prescription benefit manager. With every merge, customers fell into a black hole and had less choices re: formularies, pharmacy network and coinsurance/copay structure etc. At the time, Merck Medco was the biggest competition.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:25 pm to deeprig9
The federal government already provides coverage to more people than any insurance company.
Posted on 7/14/22 at 3:29 pm to Old Money
quote:
Only on TD will people white knight for our current system. Incredible
Well id go back to before 2010, but we wont.
We have the least wait times of any country and we pay our doctors and nurses more than anywhere else in the world. You want longer wait times and lower paid nurses and doctors?
We pay more for medicines, like the covid vaccines. While other countries get it at half the price or free because the American tax payer paid for it.
Page 9 of 15
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News