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Started By
Message
How much are you paying for a full home generator? Sizing and pricing question.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:08 am
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:08 am
Our new (to us) house is on the gulf coast in south Louisiana, and I was quoted about $16,000 for a full home generator. I knew it was going to be pretty high, but that was more than I expected. The price is inclusive of 4 years of service and a 10 year warranty and full installation cost of everything including the automatic switch....but I'm wondering if I have the right size for our house.
The house has 2 central AC's (5 ton and a 4 ton). Pool pump, fridge, freezer, and standard w/d are all electric. Stove and oven are gas. Water heaters are gas. Furnace is gas (no electric heat pump).
We were sized at a 26KW Generac, which has a 5-6 month lead time. I believe it's air cooled and will fit in the same case as the 22kw Generac. The liquid cooled models are much more expensive and physically larger, and start at 27KW in size (so I want to avoid that). The 22Kw Generac is available right away. The 26Kw won't get installed until the fall or even winter.
Is this an oversized unit for what we need?
The house has 2 central AC's (5 ton and a 4 ton). Pool pump, fridge, freezer, and standard w/d are all electric. Stove and oven are gas. Water heaters are gas. Furnace is gas (no electric heat pump).
We were sized at a 26KW Generac, which has a 5-6 month lead time. I believe it's air cooled and will fit in the same case as the 22kw Generac. The liquid cooled models are much more expensive and physically larger, and start at 27KW in size (so I want to avoid that). The 22Kw Generac is available right away. The 26Kw won't get installed until the fall or even winter.
Is this an oversized unit for what we need?
This post was edited on 6/14/22 at 12:47 pm
19
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:09 am to dewster
Subtle I have a big fricking house brag
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:12 am to PenguinPubes
quote:
Subtle I have a big fricking house brag
That's not what I meant and I apologize if that is how it comes off.
I'm just baffled by a $16,000 installation price, especially when I could get a smaller unit right away rather than waiting until after hurricane season for the install of a bigger unit that might not be necessary.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:22 am to dewster
2 years ago I was quoted $14,000 for a 22 kw system.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:35 am to dewster
Depending on where you live, to install the 22kw instead of the 26kw could result in multiple load management devices needing to be installed. With the cost of them, it can end up costing more than the 26kw. $16K is a little steep, but not outrageous. Wire and gas piping are high.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:37 am to LSUA 75
I’m no expert but I think a 22:kw system would work if you didn’t want everything
running at the same time.Maybe put soft starters on AC units and maybe run 1 at a time.Freezer and refrigerator don’t need to be running 24 hours a day.
Best plan would to would be to total all the watts of everything you want to run and that would give you a better idea of size you need.
running at the same time.Maybe put soft starters on AC units and maybe run 1 at a time.Freezer and refrigerator don’t need to be running 24 hours a day.
Best plan would to would be to total all the watts of everything you want to run and that would give you a better idea of size you need.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 10:43 am to dewster
Can't help answer your question, but maybe consider getting an electrician that has not interest in selling you a generator come out and determine the proper load for your house. If the 26kW is the proper size, are there items you can eliminate to drop to the 22kW for the few weeks/month you may need the generator?
Posted on 6/14/22 at 12:32 pm to dewster
Last week I was quoted $12,500 for a full install of a 22KW. The next day I was quoted $14K for a full install of a 24KW.
Frick those prices. I don't lose power enough to justify it.
Frick those prices. I don't lose power enough to justify it.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 1:06 pm to dewster
Shop around a little and I bet you can get a liquid cooled kohler or Cummins installed for about 20k. It will be a vastly superior unit to any air cooled, especially an air cooled Generac.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 2:38 pm to dewster
About 2 or 3 months ago I got 3 quotes in the $14k-$18k range for a 22kw Generac. The generator, main breaker and gas meter would be on the same side of the house, so a pretty basic install. One of them told me the generator starts at $11k and I asked why are they charging double the price for the generator and showed him a website that had the 22kw Generac in stock for $5500. He couldn’t give me an answer. I decided not to have the whole home generator installed. Can’t justify the cost for the amount of time it would be needed.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 2:54 pm to dewster
quote:
Is this an oversized unit for what we need?
Do you want to run your entire house or not?
Posted on 6/14/22 at 2:59 pm to dewster
quote:
We were sized at a 26KW Generac
quote:
The 22Kw Generac is available right away. The 26Kw won't get installed until the fall or even winter.
There are 24kw models that should be available right away powerequipmentdirect.com. Although, if you undersize it, you may need to have something to manage the load. That 22kw probably can't handle 9 tons of AC with the dryer and pool equipment running at the same time. But you can have a management module that will only run certain circuits at the same time and make sure the AC units aren't both starting at the same time.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 3:17 pm to ashy larry
If your central ac systems are nearing end of life, what would changing them to inverter drive units do for your locked rotor amps and therefore generator size? That should offset a bit of the generator requirements on top of better bills year round.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 8:12 pm to dewster
To get a basic understanding of your electrical loading, there should be a nameplate on every electrical device showing its data. If you have a watt rating on the nameplate, that is your loading right there. If you have amps, multiply by 240V or 120V (depending on your source voltage) to get watts. This will give you a starting point to estimate the size you'll need.
When an electrical device starts up, the initial jolt of current is referred to as "inrush current" or sometimes shown as LRA (locked rotor amps) for motors. Your A/C compressors pull a lot of current on startup even if their full load amp rating can be handled by your generator. Like others have said, get some soft starters for your units to reduce inrush by about 60-70%. I have two MicroAir soft starters on my 3 ton units and can attest to how effective they are. The MicroAir can also stagger their startup after a power outage to make sure they don't both kick on at the same time.
I'll use some generic numbers from a Rheem catalog ( https://www.rheem.com/group/rheem-air-conditioners-classic-series-single-stage-ra16) to show how to do the loading for the biggest consumers of electricity in the majority of homes:
4 Ton:
Rated Load Amps (RLA): 17A (17 x 240 = 4080W)
Locked Rotor Amps (LRA): 123.9A (123.9 x 240 = 29.5kW surge)
5 ton:
RLA: 23.7A (23.7 x 240 = 5688W)
LRA: 152A (152 x 240 = 36.4kW surge)
You'll also have to take into account the compressor fan and blower motor as well, but those will be considerably lighter loads than the compressors. Still, reducing that inrush current for the compressors significantly reduces the jolt on your generator to run them.
I don't know much about pool equipment but each piece should also have nameplate information on the pumps, heaters, etc. to give you an idea of the loading. My guess is they consume a lot of energy, especially when electricity is used to heat.
You can pretty much ignore all lighting in your home if you are running LED or fluorescent as they are considerably more efficient than incandescent. An average 60W-equivalent bulb pulls about 10% of that (like 6W) so it can be ignored.
So figure out which appliances you wish to run, get the nameplate data, total up your amps or watts, and compare it to what the generator can handle in terms of load. It's a starting point.
When an electrical device starts up, the initial jolt of current is referred to as "inrush current" or sometimes shown as LRA (locked rotor amps) for motors. Your A/C compressors pull a lot of current on startup even if their full load amp rating can be handled by your generator. Like others have said, get some soft starters for your units to reduce inrush by about 60-70%. I have two MicroAir soft starters on my 3 ton units and can attest to how effective they are. The MicroAir can also stagger their startup after a power outage to make sure they don't both kick on at the same time.
I'll use some generic numbers from a Rheem catalog ( https://www.rheem.com/group/rheem-air-conditioners-classic-series-single-stage-ra16) to show how to do the loading for the biggest consumers of electricity in the majority of homes:
4 Ton:
Rated Load Amps (RLA): 17A (17 x 240 = 4080W)
Locked Rotor Amps (LRA): 123.9A (123.9 x 240 = 29.5kW surge)
5 ton:
RLA: 23.7A (23.7 x 240 = 5688W)
LRA: 152A (152 x 240 = 36.4kW surge)
You'll also have to take into account the compressor fan and blower motor as well, but those will be considerably lighter loads than the compressors. Still, reducing that inrush current for the compressors significantly reduces the jolt on your generator to run them.
I don't know much about pool equipment but each piece should also have nameplate information on the pumps, heaters, etc. to give you an idea of the loading. My guess is they consume a lot of energy, especially when electricity is used to heat.
You can pretty much ignore all lighting in your home if you are running LED or fluorescent as they are considerably more efficient than incandescent. An average 60W-equivalent bulb pulls about 10% of that (like 6W) so it can be ignored.
So figure out which appliances you wish to run, get the nameplate data, total up your amps or watts, and compare it to what the generator can handle in terms of load. It's a starting point.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 9:10 pm to dewster
quote:
this an oversized unit for what we need?
Personally I would request a breakdown of the load calcs to see how they came up with that rec. I know the price difference for going up KW’s is usually peanuts compared to the installation cost so I would lean towards going bigger just to be safe. I also think that if the installers felt comfortable recommending a 22kw and could get it installed and billed quicker most would go that route just to nook the dollars.
That said, I have a 20kw B&S that rolled over 800hrs this summer with similar load requirements as you (2 AC units, pool pump, electric washer/dryer, 2 refrigerators) and I have not had any issues running anything I have wanted during an outage.
Also, service is about $500 a year so 4 years of service is worth a couple thousand dollars.
Posted on 6/15/22 at 9:25 am to Whatafrekinchessiebr
During emergency time with power out for a few days (barring the exception of Laura or Ida) why is it so vital for people to power everything in their house? Save money with a transfer switch and power what you need. 10's of thousands more $$$ doesn't make sense.
Posted on 6/15/22 at 10:08 am to Bayou
quote:
During emergency time with power out for a few days (barring the exception of Laura or Ida) why is it so vital for people to power everything in their house? Save money with a transfer switch and power what you need. 10's of thousands more $$$ doesn't make sense.
Yeah, I don't get the 20KW+ generator needs. I totally get if you desire it. But my 11KW runs damn near everything. I don't want my microwave, dryer, and Central AC on at the same time, but I will work around that if it's ever needed.
Posted on 6/15/22 at 11:54 am to Bayou
quote:
During emergency time with power out for a few days (barring the exception of Laura or Ida) why is it so vital for people to power everything in their house? Save money with a transfer switch and power what you need. 10's of thousands more $$$ doesn't make sense.
I have a 20 Kw generator, the total cost was $9600 installed including tax. The difference between it and a 12 Kw generator and transfer switch is obviously not tens of thousands, maybe a couple of thousand bucks tops, Well worth it to not have to monitor what’s turned on, the house continues to run as normal.
Posted on 6/15/22 at 1:08 pm to dewster
Got a quote for 30kw liquid cooled Cummins at 27,600 installed
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