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re: Thoughts on the RaDonda Vaught (nurse convicted of negligent homicide) trial?
Posted on 3/29/22 at 5:16 pm to CockyDawg MD
Posted on 3/29/22 at 5:16 pm to CockyDawg MD
Everyone agrees that her error was egregious, she’s possibly the dumbest and most incompetent nurse in history, and a patient died as a result of her actions. The question is, should she go to prison for it?
4
Posted on 3/29/22 at 5:36 pm to Rick9Plus
This seems to blow way past “mistake” into “dangerously negligent or incompetent” territory.
That is the difference between a suspended / revoked license and jail time.
That is the difference between a suspended / revoked license and jail time.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 6:12 pm to Rick9Plus
quote:
The question is, should she go to prison for it?
Anyone who says "no" better not ever support a cop going to jail for an accidental shooting or death.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 6:21 pm to Ingeniero
Wasn't even 1% as negligent as Richard Levine, and he got promoted.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 6:27 pm to Ingeniero
The big problem with this verdict is the chilling effect it will have. The nurse immediately admitted her mistake which allowed Vandy to fix the process problems they had. Now, no one will ever admit to anything again and more patients will be at risk from bad processes. Hospitals have quality committees that are shielded from the public eye and lawyers. This allows them to improve without the risk of being sued. This nurse made a mistake, but Vandy was equally guilty and threw her under the bus.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 7:25 pm to Ricardo
Here is a timeline.
Long before the nurses name or any of this was public. The hospital settled with the family of the deceased woman-- an undisclosed sum of money and the family had to sign NDA's.
The nurse was fired.
The nurse got a job elsewhere- non clinical. Someone reported the nurse and incident anonymously. Suddenly there was a surprise inspection on the hospital and the nurse was charged to where we are now.
Long before the nurses name or any of this was public. The hospital settled with the family of the deceased woman-- an undisclosed sum of money and the family had to sign NDA's.
The nurse was fired.
The nurse got a job elsewhere- non clinical. Someone reported the nurse and incident anonymously. Suddenly there was a surprise inspection on the hospital and the nurse was charged to where we are now.
This post was edited on 3/29/22 at 7:32 pm
Posted on 3/29/22 at 7:27 pm to Ingeniero
Wood
Posted on 3/29/22 at 8:07 pm to Auburn80
quote:
The big problem with this verdict is the chilling effect it will have. The nurse immediately admitted her mistake which allowed Vandy to fix the process problems they had
While it definitely seems that Vandy had some issues, posters have alluded to the nurse bypassing the fail safe measures 3 times to get the drug. The drug was properly labeled and furthermore contained numerous clear warnings and colors on the bottle.
If the average nurse is honestly upset at this, then honestly I’d lose a lot of respect for them.
If you want to make anywhere near a decent living you generally need to be capable of making common sense decisions. This particular lady was not.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 8:08 pm to lsupride87
quote:
this is why we always always tell them there should be zero overrides and no verbal orders
Sounds fine in theory. Unrealistic in practice.
This post was edited on 3/29/22 at 8:09 pm
Posted on 3/29/22 at 8:21 pm to Cotten
quote:
Vaught was cleared by the nursing board after that.
Not saying it’s the case here, but it’s been my experience that nurses are only disciplined/reprimanded when they cross administrators, nurse managers, or other nurses.
A nurse could intentionally shite down a patients throat till the poor soul suffocated and not receive so much as probation from the nursing board.
Obviously, hyperbolic, but I’ve yet to encounter a board or occupational governing body that circles the wagons like nursing boards.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 8:26 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Anyone who says "no" better not ever support a cop going to jail for an accidental shooting or death.
I don’t, at least not in the case where the woman accidentally grabbed her gun instead of the taser. To me they are similar. Or, hypothetically, what if a restaurant waiter accidentally grabbed the wrong meal and brought it to a customer? If the customer had a food allergy and died, do you throw them in jail? People make similar errors all the time. If the action is the same, do you jail them based on the outcome (death vs no harm?), or do you prosecute certain professions (nurses and cops) but not others?
Posted on 3/29/22 at 8:38 pm to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
Not saying it’s the case here, but it’s been my experience that nurses are only disciplined/reprimanded when they cross administrators, nurse managers, or other nurses.
A nurse could intentionally shite down a patients throat till the poor soul suffocated and not receive so much as probation from the nursing board.
Obviously, hyperbolic, but I’ve yet to encounter a board or occupational governing body that circles the wagons like nursing boards.
It's not limited to nurses... How many different hospital systems knowingly allowed Neurosurgeon Christopher Dunstch to perform gross negligence to mame and kill numerous people in Dallas?
Posted on 3/29/22 at 8:41 pm to Ingeniero
is this a WYHI thread? I am confused.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 9:13 pm to Dragula
quote:
It's not limited to nurses
Of course it’s not
quote:
How many different hospital systems knowingly allowed Neurosurgeon Christopher Dunstch to perform gross negligence to mame and kill numerous people in Dallas?
Key words:” hospital systems”
ie administrators more concerned with their liability and bottom line than with patient care
Though, to be fair, the surgeons running his residency program bear some responsibility for allowing him to graduate IMhO. Never should’ve happened.
But ultimately it was fellow physicians who aggressively pursued his investigation.
This post was edited on 3/29/22 at 9:15 pm
Posted on 3/29/22 at 9:17 pm to touchdownjeebus
This was an inexcusable mistake on the nurses part,imo.When I was working we frequently took verbal orders and took drugs out of Pyxis on a override but we were required to have a witness.Tell the witness what drug we were getting and they would observe the removal and verify it was right drug.For Vanderbilt to not have the same policy is nexcusable.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 10:09 pm to Ingeniero
Happens everyday in multiple professions. It’s about time we started holding “professionals” responsible for their mistakes.
Posted on 3/29/22 at 10:47 pm to Rick9Plus
quote:
People make similar errors all the time. If the action is the same, do you jail them based on the outcome (death vs no harm?), or do you prosecute certain professions (nurses and cops) but not others?
That is my main point in all of this, the disparity in justice. Just in professions requiring significant training, and licensure it is easy to find numerous examples where a mistake resulted in a fatality, and no criminal charges resulted.
Posted on 3/30/22 at 7:27 am to baldona
Vecuronium is used to paralyze patients so that they can be intubated and maintained on a mechanical ventilator with relaxed diaphragm and skeletal muscle. This is most commonly done during general anesthesia but it can also be used in an ICU setting for similar situations
Vecuronium can be immediately reversed with another medication called Sugammedex which is readily available. If the patient had been monitored properly and the nurse had realized that she had made a mistake.
ICU patients, such as this one, that are taken for imaging are maintained on continuous hemodynamic monitoring including heart rate, heart rhythm, blood pressure, and pulse oxymetry throughout their CT scan or MRI.
It would have been very apparent to anyone who is competent in providing critical care that this patient had experienced an acute change that needed to be rapidly investigated. Because this patient was conscious through this situation I would expect to see tachycardia, hypertension, worsening hypoxia which would have progressed as the patient deteriorated over the course of a few minutes to severe hypoxia, bradycardia, hypotension, and then ultimately cardiac arrest.
Any competent nurse who actually paying attention to the patient would have pulled the patient out of the scanner and started manually ventilating the patients, this patient would still be alive.
Vecuronium can be immediately reversed with another medication called Sugammedex which is readily available. If the patient had been monitored properly and the nurse had realized that she had made a mistake.
ICU patients, such as this one, that are taken for imaging are maintained on continuous hemodynamic monitoring including heart rate, heart rhythm, blood pressure, and pulse oxymetry throughout their CT scan or MRI.
It would have been very apparent to anyone who is competent in providing critical care that this patient had experienced an acute change that needed to be rapidly investigated. Because this patient was conscious through this situation I would expect to see tachycardia, hypertension, worsening hypoxia which would have progressed as the patient deteriorated over the course of a few minutes to severe hypoxia, bradycardia, hypotension, and then ultimately cardiac arrest.
Any competent nurse who actually paying attention to the patient would have pulled the patient out of the scanner and started manually ventilating the patients, this patient would still be alive.
This post was edited on 3/30/22 at 7:42 am
Posted on 3/30/22 at 7:56 am to CrimsonTideMD
quote:
But ultimately it was fellow physicians who aggressively pursued his investigation.
Kirby is a friend of a friend, quite the character.
Posted on 3/30/22 at 7:57 am to Rick9Plus
For disregarding numerous safety features of which she is professionallly trained to follow and and for being licensed to practice acute care nursing, I think she must be prosecuted for her negligence leading to death.
If a pilot ignored numerous electronic and audible safety warnings to pull up the nose of the airplane but because they were too incompetent to do so despite being licensed as a pilot and people died as a result of their actions, then the pilot would be criminally liable for the deaths of passengers on his plane.
If a pilot ignored numerous electronic and audible safety warnings to pull up the nose of the airplane but because they were too incompetent to do so despite being licensed as a pilot and people died as a result of their actions, then the pilot would be criminally liable for the deaths of passengers on his plane.
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