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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/6/23 at 7:40 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 12/6/23 at 7:40 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
From our end ("our" referring to those of us who actually pay taxes), the purchase of all equipment and other "fixed assets" transferred to Ukraine was accomplished in toto with our cash. What part of that FACT is unclear to you, facher?
None of that is unclear, but what you can't seem to grasp is that the initial investment had nothing to do with Ukraine, and over time, much of the material became outdated and marked for storage and/or disposal.
But for your "I don't want to send a penny over there" argument to work, you have to portray this material as cash. When at the time of appropriation, it objectively wasn't. Because if you were to accept that it wasn't cash, you would then likely have to defend why you would rather use taxpayer money to dispose or store said materials rather than have them put to use eliminating Russians.
And since you can't defend that point, you claim it is a "petty" argument.
4
Posted on 12/6/23 at 7:44 pm to facher08
quote:Of course not. It had to do with taxpayers' money spent for supposed US assets. Then the government took investments which taxpayers made, and transferred those to Ukraine.
the initial investment had nothing to do with Ukraine
Posted on 12/6/23 at 7:46 pm to facher08
ISW Update
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Ukrainian Defense Minister Rustem Umerov credited Western security assistance for empowering Ukrainian forces to liberate half of the territory that Russia occupied since February 24, 2022.
Russian forces conducted a notably large series of drone strikes against Ukraine on the night of December 5 to 6.
Russian President Vladimir Putin traveled to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Saudi Arabia to meet with UAE President Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan and Saudi Crown Prince and Prime Minister Mohammed bin Salman in a series of bilateral meetings on December 6.
Russian oil revenues continue to increase due to a concerted Russian effort to skirt the G7 price cap on Russian crude oil and petroleum products.
Russian society appears interested in discussing the outcome of the war in Ukraine despite the Kremlin’s increasing aversion to more in-depth public discussions of the war.
Unspecified actors killed former pro-Russian Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada deputy Ilya Kiva in Moscow Oblast on December 6.
Moscow’s 2nd Western Military District Court convicted two Russian air defense officers for negligence for failing to prevent a Ukrainian strike on Russian territory in April 2022, likely to set an example to improve discipline across the Russian military.
Russian officials are reportedly attempting to funnel migrants who have ended up in Russia due to Russia’s failed hybrid war tactics on the Russian-Finnish border into ongoing force generation efforts.
Russian forces continued offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, near Avdiivka, west and southwest of Donetsk City, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and western Zaporizhia Oblast and advanced near Avdiivka.
The Russian State Duma will reportedly consider a bill allowing Russian conscripts to serve in the Federal Security Service’s (FSB) Border Service.
Ukrainian partisans may have conducted an attack in occupied Luhansk City on December 6 that killed Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) People’s Council Deputy Oleg Popov.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 7:49 pm to facher08
quote:You are struggling.
But for your "I don't want to send a penny over there" argument to work
Let's review. I do not want to send a penny of CASH to that corrupted political cesspool. You think we should drown the environment in cash. Own your opinion.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:02 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The Biden Administration tried to give Ukraine just barely enough for their offensive, because they wanted Ukraine to retake the South, and then they were going to push for a ceasefire. They tried to micromanage the war.
The same people who gave us the Afghan cut and run disaster, are now micromanaging the Ukraine/Russia war.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:02 pm to Hateradedrink
David D. shared this. We had to take all the armor off this vehicle, and now it's being sold for a pittance as surplus.
Because Biden didn't want to send it to Ukraine.
Because Biden didn't want to send it to Ukraine.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:17 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
But for your "I don't want to send a penny over there" argument to workYou are struggling. Let's review. I do not want to send a penny of CASH to that corrupted political cesspool.
What about the other 66% of aid to Ukraine?
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:26 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
No one in Congress has been a bigger supporter of Ukraine than Sen. McConnell, and he's very much on board with the House GOP strategy now. Why? It's because the Biden Administration has completely bungled the war, doling out equipment slowly and long after it would have been most effective. Every expert agrees that, had Ukraine gotten HIMARS, ATACMS, Bradleys, cluster munitions, Abrams, etc. earlier in the war, Ukraine would have crushed Russia in the south and also retaken much of the Donbas. But the Biden Administration didn't want this to happen. Biden has continually talked about helping "as long as it takes," but he won't say what "it" is. Ukrainian victory? Why won't Biden say that?
Ever since the Polish Mig debacle last year, I’ve been saying that the Biden administration is doing just enough to make sure that Ukraine doesn’t lose and their strategy is to just let the Ukrainians and Russians kill each other. I’m glad the GOP is coming around to my positions even if it’s 18 months too late.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:31 pm to WeeWee
quote:I'm fine sending non-cash assistance to Ukraine WeeWee. We got them into this shite. It's the least we can do to help them mitigate the consequences of their decisions to risk a war, and then to continue to fight it.
What about the other 66% of aid to Ukraine?
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:35 pm to facher08
quote:
None of that is unclear, but what you can't seem to grasp is that the initial investment had nothing to do with Ukraine, and over time, much of the material became outdated and marked for storage and/or disposal.
But for your "I don't want to send a penny over there" argument to work, you have to portray this material as cash. When at the time of appropriation, it objectively wasn't. Because if you were to accept that it wasn't cash, you would then likely have to defend why you would rather use taxpayer money to dispose or store said materials rather than have them put to use eliminating Russians.
And since you can't defend that point, you claim it is a "petty" argument.
The outdated stuff is the red herring and a small part of the total package value being sent.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:37 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The Biden Administration tried to give Ukraine just barely enough for their offensive, because they wanted Ukraine to retake the South, and then they were going to push for a ceasefire. They tried to micromanage the war.
Yep. It was the Biden administration who forced Ukraine to launch the counteroffensive before Ukraine was ready because Biden needed a political win. Per my sauce(s) in Ukraine they were saying a spring offensive to distract Russia but were really planning a late summer offensive. They were hoping to lure the Russians into false sense of security after a spring or early summer offensive didn’t happen. Unfortunately the Biden administration forced Ukraine to launch the counteroffensive when a small weak spot was found.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:41 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Ever since the Polish Mig debacle last year, I’ve been saying that the Biden administration is doing just enough to make sure that Ukraine doesn’t lose and their strategy is to just let the Ukrainians and Russians kill each other. I’m glad the GOP is coming around to my positions even if it’s 18 months too late.
Early on in the war, I understood the concerns about possible escalation, and I said so here. I thought the risk was worth taking, but I thought the Biden Administration strategy was defensible.
But about a year ago, it became clear that there was zero risk of escalation, and I thought that's where the Biden Administration really fumbled the ball. If Ukraine had had cluster munitions and ATACMS at the beginning of their offensive, it would have been successful. Period. Not to mention the difference another hundred Bradleys would've made.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:41 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You are struggling.
Let's review. I do not want to send a penny of CASH to that corrupted political cesspool.
Yea, we know. Now, let's indeed review where this entire debate between us began..your original claim that $113 billion was made up of cash, when it Chrome accurately stated that it is more like $27 billion.
quote:
We have given Ukraine about $27B in cash.
$113 billion ... but ... you know ... like in a like $7 Trillion pig sty, like what's a few billion extra dollars. ?
I've clearly explained in my last post why the $113 billion isn't cash in regards to Ukraine which you conveniently ignored.
quote:
You think we should drown the environment in cash. Own your opinion.
And now you you are moving the goal posts yet again, with more claims and suppositions for which you have no support.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:43 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Yep. It was the Biden administration who forced Ukraine to launch the counteroffensive before Ukraine was ready because Biden needed a political win. Per my sauce(s) in Ukraine they were saying a spring offensive to distract Russia but were really planning a late summer offensive. They were hoping to lure the Russians into false sense of security after a spring or early summer offensive didn’t happen. Unfortunately the Biden administration forced Ukraine to launch the counteroffensive when a small weak spot was found.
Eh, the Russians are sitting behind fixed defenses and are just happy to sit there and wait for the most part, delaying was not going to lull them into anything.
Russia has been throwing up defensive lines and throwing bodies at problems as long as there has been a Russia, Ukraine has to decide if it is willing to spend the massive amount of lives it will take to dislodge Russia and do it or let them keep what they have, same place we have been for 6 months.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 8:56 pm to WhereisAtlanta
quote:
Eh, the Russians are sitting behind fixed defenses and are just happy to sit there and wait for the most part, delaying was not going to lull them into anything.
More time for western aid to arrive. When Ukraine launched the offensive < 10 of the 50 or so western mine clearing tanks were in country. Almost half of the engineers Ukraine was planning on using were still in mine clearing training. Ukraine was also hoping to utilize the weather to their advantage. Make some small gains before the mud season starts and fixed the Russians in place. Then when the rains flood the trenches and the mines sink into the mud use their HIMARs and cluster munitions to keep the Russians from moving units around. Then hit them hard when it freezes over.
Posted on 12/6/23 at 9:03 pm to WhereisAtlanta
Eh, the Russians are sitting behind fixed defenses and are just happy to sit there and wait for the most part, delaying was not going to lull them into anything.
It's really the depth of the minefields that are the major issue, not trenches and dragon teeth
It's really the depth of the minefields that are the major issue, not trenches and dragon teeth
Posted on 12/7/23 at 4:09 am to WeeWee
quote:That is info I hadn't yet heard. Interesting and sad if true. Has any of this been released publically in a news source?
Per my sauce(s) in Ukraine they were saying a spring offensive to distract Russia but were really planning a late summer offensive. They were hoping to lure the Russians into false sense of security after a spring or early summer offensive didn’t happen. Unfortunately the Biden administration forced Ukraine to launch the counteroffensive when a small weak spot was found.
On a related basis, given this insensible, manipulative behavior from the US, I am surprised you won't take a second look at the origins of this whole debacle. I know you've exonerated everyone but Putin himself. But now that you're that you're noting this on Team Biden's part, I'll bet you'll find the UK is in step as well. Do yourself a favor. Go back and give the runup to war a clean second look.
The same Biden team now ordering the death of Ukrainian soldiers in a premature, and therefore predictably futile attack, is the team which was in charge in the prelude to this war as well. You're a bright guy. You can't really suppose Biden & Co just suddenly grew callous over lost Ukrainian lives and the precept of a drawn out proxy war against Russia.
I know you're invested in a position here, and that isn't likely to change. But knowing what you know now, just privately give it a second look at some point. In terms of "those who don't learn from history..." it is an opportunity.
Posted on 12/7/23 at 5:18 am to NC_Tigah
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE
07 December 2023
On 1 December 2023, a new intake of Russian officers started their studies at the Russian General Staff Academy. The Russian MOD announced that over 60% of the intake has combat experience. Although it was not specified, the majority have likely gained this experience in Ukraine since 2022.
Students at the academy typically rank between Major and General-Major (equivalent to a one-star General in the NATO system) and are earmarked as having the potential for senior command.
While a high proportion of some specialists, such as pilots, deployed on operations in Syria, the Ukraine war means combat experience is now more widespread across this mid-level cadre of Russian officers. Over the coming years, this generation is likely to exert major influence over the future direction of Russia's military and whether it implements lessons learned from the war in Ukraine.
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE
07 December 2023
On 1 December 2023, a new intake of Russian officers started their studies at the Russian General Staff Academy. The Russian MOD announced that over 60% of the intake has combat experience. Although it was not specified, the majority have likely gained this experience in Ukraine since 2022.
Students at the academy typically rank between Major and General-Major (equivalent to a one-star General in the NATO system) and are earmarked as having the potential for senior command.
While a high proportion of some specialists, such as pilots, deployed on operations in Syria, the Ukraine war means combat experience is now more widespread across this mid-level cadre of Russian officers. Over the coming years, this generation is likely to exert major influence over the future direction of Russia's military and whether it implements lessons learned from the war in Ukraine.
Posted on 12/7/23 at 7:01 am to GOP_Tiger
What about the delays on the ATACMS?
What Mushbrain Biden and his group of incompetent fools have done is criminal. The whole west in general. It makes me sick as hell. How many lives would have been spared if that equipment had been provided? They sacrificed the lives of thousands.
I can't wait to vote against that son of a bitch.
What Mushbrain Biden and his group of incompetent fools have done is criminal. The whole west in general. It makes me sick as hell. How many lives would have been spared if that equipment had been provided? They sacrificed the lives of thousands.
I can't wait to vote against that son of a bitch.
This post was edited on 12/7/23 at 7:04 am
Posted on 12/7/23 at 7:08 am to cypher
Kremlin Says It Hopes US Congress Will Block Future Ukraine Aid
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov accused the White House of trying to “scorch the money of American citizens in the furnace of the Ukrainian war.”
by AFP | December 7, 2023, 1:56 pm
The Kremlin said Thursday it hoped US lawmakers would continue to block White House requests for emergency aid for Ukraine amid an internal feud in Washington over immigration reforms.
The Kyiv Post
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov accused the White House of trying to “scorch the money of American citizens in the furnace of the Ukrainian war.”
by AFP | December 7, 2023, 1:56 pm
The Kremlin said Thursday it hoped US lawmakers would continue to block White House requests for emergency aid for Ukraine amid an internal feud in Washington over immigration reforms.
The Kyiv Post
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