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1
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:54 am to ThaGenius
quote:
Which candidates have SUPERIOR football minds?
On the basis of their football acumen? I would rank the top three available football minds as:
1) Fisher - proven commodity, recruiter, connections, seemless transition possible
2) Chip Kelly - a risk, but obviously much less of a risk than an Orgeron. His system works. The big problems I would worry about would be personality and interest.
3) Aranda - No one questions his ability. He has turned around the defense and his players seem to worship him. I am really tempted to rank him above Kelly but his lack of head coaching experience makes him #3.
There are other guys you could point to as superior football minds but I think they are unavailable (Peterson, Patterson, Stoops) or have too much baggage (Briles, Petrino).
I don't have a problem with someone who wants to put Herman or Fleck up there as better candidates than Aranda either, but if they point to Orgeron I just can not see where they are coming from.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:55 am to H-Town Tiger
It's not that I don't like the answer it's that you didn't provide anything of substance. I asked what his deficiencies as a head coach would be and you said win at a winning level and his resume at Ole Miss.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:58 am to ThaGenius
quote:
It's not that I don't like the answer it's that you didn't provide anything of substance.
wut? What substance are you looking for? How is his resume not "substance"? This post was edited on 11/2/16 at 11:01 am
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:00 am to molsusports
Herman is at the top of my list. He's going to UT. If Chip were to come back to college this year he's going back to Eugene. Jimbo is the 2nd guy on my list but I just don't think he wants to come back after the fiasco last year. And idk if Aranda wants to be a head coach at a school like us but I'd enjoy that hire. I've heard him speak in public and it was really good. When it all comes down to it, the guys with the superior minds won't be available leaving us with the rest.
ETA: Since I got a downvote by no way do I want that to happen, I'm just facing reality. If we had our way I'm pretty sure we could all agree that Herman or Jimbo would be our guy. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
ETA: Since I got a downvote by no way do I want that to happen, I'm just facing reality. If we had our way I'm pretty sure we could all agree that Herman or Jimbo would be our guy. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
This post was edited on 11/2/16 at 11:07 am
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:05 am to H-Town Tiger
I'm asking you what his coaching deficiencies are and all you know to say is Ole Miss, Ole Miss, Ole Miss. You could state what he did wrong there but you may not even know.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:08 am to ThaGenius
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:12 am to CalTiger53
quote:
O is more likely to get the job than any other coach.
If that is the case, Alleva may be driving the final nail in the coffin as far as his career at LSU is concerned. He will have told the rest of college football that all his big talk is just bluster, and that going cheap is what matters (Joe Dean 2.0).
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:15 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
For The Anti-Os
right off the bat by making pro or anti O you are forcing to be emotional. Like with Miles it is not about being for or against the guy, but whether he is the guy to get LSU back to an elite level. I don't want to go 10-3 with a better offense and "more fun" atmosphere. I want where we were from 2003-2007 and 2010-2012.
quote:
That said, I've seen all the reasons you're against him: failed at OM, don't fire a HC to hire a DL coach, need someone with coordinator experience, hasn't shown he can build a team, etc. I've also seen those arguments refuted
when you say the arguments about his record have been refute. How so? For example when someone says O has never been a coordinator, the response is to bring up guys like Meyer and Swinney who also were never coordinators before being HC. That is not a refutation but grasping for a comparison. Meyer was never a coordinator, that's true. But his first HC job was Bowling Green where he was 17-6 in 2 years, that lead to Utah where he was 22-2 in 2 years. In his first 4 years he was 39-8 as a HC. That record trumps never having been an OC when he was hired a Florida. Swinney's first full 3 years he was 9-5, 6-7, 10-4. That is substantially better than O at OM. O's 3rd year at OM, when he does have his players, he won 3 games, Nutt won 9 the next 2 years. Sorry, but that has to be considered.
quote:
I saw someone post in another thread that the pro-Os are making emotional decisions and ignoring logic because they want him to succeed. Aren't you doing the same thing?
How is saying the guy was terrible as full time HC, was never a coordinator before or since that stint and is not considered a candidate for any major job outside of LSU as reason I'd prefer to hire an outside coach being "emotional"?
Vs the pro arguments which seem to be more or less some combo at least of the following. He's learned from his past mistakes at OM (based on what?) He restored energy to the program look how they are playing (3 games, 2 against bad teams =/= a full season let alone multiple seasons). He's a Louisiana guy!
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:17 am to ThaGenius
quote:
I'm asking you what his coaching deficiencies are and all you know to say is Ole Miss, Ole Miss, Ole Miss. You could state what he did wrong there but you may not even know.
What do you mean by don't know? If you mean specific instances, you got me. I wasn't there. I can't tell you what exactly he did wrong is precice detail.
What I do know is he won 10 games in 3 years at a mid tier program. His successor won 18 games the next 2 season. So from what I've seen his deficiencies are he was unable to run a program from soup to nuts. Nothing he has done since shows he is capable of getting LSU to championship level. While I don't have intimate knowledge, I do know that NO ONE that does has considered him a candidate to a top flight job the equivalent of
OM, let alone LSU.
As Trevor Matic pointed out on ESPN yesterday, winning a few games as an IHC is different from running the program.
This post was edited on 11/2/16 at 11:19 am
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:20 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
What his deficiency would be? Please read Meat Market. He was a mess at Ole Miss. Unprepared and out of his element.
He hasn't sustained success anywhere, he has no expertise other than the DL and recruiting, he relies on gimmicky motivational techniques and most of all, he was the worst coach our rivals have ever seen.
He is a massive risk.
All I'm saying is that he should go get another job and prove us wrong rather than let LSU be the proving grounds. That is reasonable.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:26 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
What his deficiency would be? Please read Meat Market. He was a mess at Ole Miss. Unprepared and out of his element.
Give us cliff notes
Posted on 11/2/16 at 2:14 pm to sicboy
quote:
Les was incapable of learning or adapting. Doesn't mean Orgeron is.
How bout we just don't take that chance
The same argument was made for Mike Archer. He did very well initially, then uh oh. We should have gone after a proven head coach. And should do that now
This is no time to experiment
Posted on 11/2/16 at 2:32 pm to ThaGenius
quote:
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
O still isn't a good place to settle either, imo.
Let's be clear: It's a fact that no other program wants O in a head coach position. So what do they see that we as fans aren't? What do coaches circles know?
You'd think, and know, that he has friends everywhere. O is a good ole boy (showing his colors in this process). Why won't someone else take the chance with him?
That's a fairly good indicator as well.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 6:25 pm to BigSlick
Gump
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:49 am to ThaGenius
quote:
You're using broad terms. What would he not be able to do to build and maintain a winning program? Recruit? Keep the team focused? Keep the program hungry? Hire the right people to put our talent in the right positions to succeed?
Because the criticism of him is broad. The fact is, he may very well be good at all of those things, we don't know. Our only way to gauge whether he would be successful at those things is to look at his past.
And there in lies the problem. His past is not good when it comes to being a HC. I have no idea why he failed so miserably, neither does anyone else on this board. Coach O THINKS he knows why he failed..but he also doesn't know if he would be successful with a new strategy, because hes never been successful with this new claimed strategy.
I want a guy that we could review thier history and experience and say, "look, here is a good sign that he has a coaching strategy that will build a winning team".
Anyone who wants to hire O is guessing that he'll be an elite HC. But it's obviously not based on facts.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 2:51 am
Posted on 11/3/16 at 11:16 am to Freauxzen
Agreed - Coach O is doing great right now, but the fact remains that this is not a program that he built. The same goes for his stint at Southern Cal. He benefited at USC and is benefiting at LSU from talent and systems put in place by someone else who would not or could not take advantage of it. We all know that Miles was a great recruiter but would not change and coach to his team's abilities. I like and respect O as much as anyone, but I would prefer going with a guy with a proven track record as a HC. Unfortunately O's only history as an actual HC is a failed Ole Miss tenure. Has he changed coaching philosophies and improved his abilities? Hopefully so. He is still an ongoing experiment. I don't think LSU needs to experiment moving forward.
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:34 pm to BigSlick
quote:
Do you actually know anything about him? Are you watching practices? Sitting in team meeting? Sitting in coaches' meetings?
The person hiring looks at the resume. He doesn't go to an applicant's prior job and watch him work.
O has no resume.
Posted on 11/3/16 at 5:41 pm to emanresu
quote:
O has no resume.
Sure he does just take a look at ole miss.
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