re: For The Anti-Os

quote:

---

The point is, what's the point of conducting a search if you automatically - and emotionally - exclude a candidate out of hand? If O should just happen to be the best candidate, YOU WOULD NEVER SEE IT, because you're just as emotionally attached to your position as the pros are to theirs.

---

All I want for them to conduct a search and carefully consider all top interested candidates. I would expect O to fall by the wayside simply because he doesn't measure up on his own merits to a lot of other coaches.

If they conduct a search and they conclude the O is the best guy for the job I would accept that, mainly because I can't do anything about it anyway and that will prove that they were never going to make a hire based on merit.

quote:

---

I saw someone post in another thread that the pro-Os are making emotional decisions and ignoring logic because they want him to succeed

---

Those people are what I like to call, dumb.

Trevor Matich on ESPN yesterday basically warned LSU fans not to get roped into O, even if he goes on a run. Said preparing for games during the season in an interim role is a small part of the whole deal.

quote:

---

For The Anti-Os

---

right off the bat by making pro or anti O you are forcing to be emotional. Like with Miles it is not about being for or against the guy, but whether he is the guy to get LSU back to an elite level. I don't want to go 10-3 with a better offense and "more fun" atmosphere. I want where we were from 2003-2007 and 2010-2012.

quote:

---

That said, I've seen all the reasons you're against him: failed at OM, don't fire a HC to hire a DL coach, need someone with coordinator experience, hasn't shown he can build a team, etc. I've also seen those arguments refuted

---

when you say the arguments about his record have been refute. How so? For example when someone says O has never been a coordinator, the response is to bring up guys like Meyer and Swinney who also were never coordinators before being HC. That is not a refutation but grasping for a comparison. Meyer was never a coordinator, that's true. But his first HC job was Bowling Green where he was 17-6 in 2 years, that lead to Utah where he was 22-2 in 2 years. In his first 4 years he was 39-8 as a HC. That record trumps never having been an OC when he was hired a Florida. Swinney's first full 3 years he was 9-5, 6-7, 10-4. That is substantially better than O at OM. O's 3rd year at OM, when he does have his players, he won 3 games, Nutt won 9 the next 2 years. Sorry, but that has to be considered.

quote:

---

I saw someone post in another thread that the pro-Os are making emotional decisions and ignoring logic because they want him to succeed. Aren't you doing the same thing?

---

How is saying the guy was terrible as full time HC, was never a coordinator before or since that stint and is not considered a candidate for any major job outside of LSU as reason I'd prefer to hire an outside coach being "emotional"?

Vs the pro arguments which seem to be more or less some combo at least of the following. He's learned from his past mistakes at OM (based on what?) He restored energy to the program look how they are playing (3 games, 2 against bad teams =/= a full season let alone multiple seasons). He's a Louisiana guy!

quote:

---

I just have one question, what is the biggest flaw of CEO as a head coach?

---

He was a total disaster his one and only shot at it. If he's "learned" from his mistakes, go prove it at a lower tier program like Syracuse before getting the keys to a big job like LSU.

quote:

---

what exactly is it that you are scared he won't be able to do?

---

Win at a win level.

quote:

---

I'm not defending O, but what exactly is it that you are scared he won't be able to do?

---

Build or sustain a winning football program

You're using broad terms. What would he not be able to do to build and maintain a winning program? Recruit? Keep the team focused? Keep the program hungry? Hire the right people to put our talent in the right positions to succeed?

What his deficiency would be? Please read Meat Market. He was a mess at Ole Miss. Unprepared and out of his element.

He hasn't sustained success anywhere, he has no expertise other than the DL and recruiting, he relies on gimmicky motivational techniques and most of all, he was the worst coach our rivals have ever seen.

He is a massive risk.

All I'm saying is that he should go get another job and prove us wrong rather than let LSU be the proving grounds. That is reasonable.

quote:

---

All I'm saying is that he should go get another job and prove us wrong rather than let LSU be the proving grounds. That is reasonable.

---

Exactly. He has shown himself to be very politically aware over the last several weeks. He obviously is aware of the rant and the radio shows. He has also vigorously courted LSU alums in different quarterback clubs and such.

But these things are not substitutes for demonstrating excellence. Even his supporters seem to tacitly admit he will rely very heavily on his coordinators. If you have the choice between a head coach who brings a superior football mind to the table and one who does not you'd be making a foolish or emotional decision instead of just looking at the history of the candidate.

He probably would have walked if he weren't promoted to interim HC but I really wish Alleva had promoted Aranda instead of Orgeron. Then we wouldn't have had this public campaigning for the job stuff going on in teh same way.

quote:

---

Its not that I'm opposed to that, I just want people's opinions of what areas he would lack in if he were the full time head coach at LSU. And only 1 person has really pointed anything out specifically.

---

You know this conversation has gone on at length in dozens of threads for hundreds of pages by now. If you haven't absorbed the objections it seems to me you just don't like the opinions.

He has done nothing to show he has a great football mind. That has all sorts of specific implications. It means he will not be useful enough when better coaches make adjustments to LSU's game plans. It also means LSU will suffer from periodic instability on both sides of the ball - because good coordinators will be hired away and bad coordinators will have to be dismissed. This doesn't happen in the same way in the football programs that play outstanding football for long periods of time - because their head coaches (e.g. Saban, Snyder, Fisher, Harbaugh, Spurrier, Stoops...) will prevent that from happening on their side of the ball.

Oregeron has also done nothing to show he has the stamina and vision to lead a football program to the top or keep it there. The Ole Miss example was obviously horrid. Cutcliffe, Nutt, and Freese were all notably more successful than him. The USC year was unremarkable when examined. USC lost two of their three games against good opponents while he was interim and then went on to win their bowl game against an 11 win Fresno team after he quit (refuting the idea that maybe USC just wasn't that good that year and couldn't compete).

So now we have LSU. LSU fired Miles when they did because they didn't want him to win some games against bad teams and garner support to keep his job indefinitely. That seemed like a very wise decision to most of us at the time - but I doubt many of us were expecting Orgeron to campaign so skillfully in public for the job. Now we're facing a situation where at least some of his supporters seem to want to hire him in the face of 1-2 losses, and probably on teh spot if LSU upsets Alabama. This makes no sense. Great programs should look for the best available candidate on the basis of their careers, not a few games as an interim coach.