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re: The Wheel of Time -- Season 2 coming in September -- Wise Ones Thread (Book Spoilers)
Posted on 11/21/21 at 4:14 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
Posted on 11/21/21 at 4:14 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
Not sure I agree with this. There were definitely a number of changes, but the spirit of the book and the characters was pretty much identical.
Eh, I didn't get much spirit of the book at all with the characters except maybe Rand.
Egwene didn't have any hard headedness/independent spirit. Perrin was married so you didn't get any normal feel to his character. Matt was a hero type character with no goofy/silliness in him.
Not sure why Morainne and Lan would just let the trollecs come and destroy the town before they start fighting. They were taken by surprise in the book, they just kind of knowingly sat there and let them march in and not warn the people of danger.
Her healing was just free of charge. Like there was no "If I do this, there will be a price to pay" vibe.
No Tom Merrilin/Gleeman at all. That was surprising.
I got very few book vibes, almost none at all, much less being identical.
quote:
People seem to forget GOT had 10 episodes and a much more linear story to tell i
It's unfortunate that it's constantly going to be compared to GoT.
1
Posted on 11/21/21 at 5:09 pm to iwyLSUiwy
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I like most of what they've done character-wise, especially with the key players.
I think they need to do a better job explaining the world, which hopefully will start with the next one.
There was a big WOT interview on The Ringer show with Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin, and Zach somebody from GQ, then the last 30 minutes or so they had Rafe on who had some very interesting comments about the Leila stuff.
I think they need to do a better job explaining the world, which hopefully will start with the next one.
There was a big WOT interview on The Ringer show with Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin, and Zach somebody from GQ, then the last 30 minutes or so they had Rafe on who had some very interesting comments about the Leila stuff.
Posted on 11/21/21 at 9:37 pm to Broken Coyote
quote:
No explanation why touching Saidin drives men insane, and why that is what caused the Breaking of the World.
And it completely overlooks the role false dragons have played in history and the political divisions within the Tower. The Reds may be fanatics but it's not a mindless fanaticism. Men who can channel are just as dangerous as the Reds claim them to be.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 7:50 am to shinerfan
quote:
And it completely overlooks the role false dragons have played in history and the political divisions within the Tower. The Reds may be fanatics but it's not a mindless fanaticism. Men who can channel are just as dangerous as the Reds claim them to be
They’re going to get into this. It’s most likely why they brought Logain into season one.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:10 am to Rand AlThor
quote:
They’re going to get into this
It really feels like a lot of people want them to have crammed all the backstory, lore, motivations etc from a 14 book 12,000 page series into 3 hours... which is impossible.
Also, our memory and understanding of the 'completed' characters at the end of the story does not equal what they should be at the beginning. Just because Perrin and Matt's initial motivations are different doesn't mean they won't have a satisfying arc and development in the end.
It feels like some people just wanted a narrator to read the book to them on television, I don't get it at all.
I'd be willing to bet that Perrin is still going to be an emotionally conflicted, super strong wolfman berserker who will be fiercely protective of his friends / family.
Matt will still have issues with the dagger, get healed, go on other adventures, travel through twisted doorways, meet exotic people from across the sea, etc.
To say that because their initial motivations are different that the whole story is ruined is a bit overdramatic.
They still all went to Shadar Logoth, they still got separated due to Mashadar, they are in their original book pairings (Matt, Rand, Thom - Perrin, Egewene - Moraine, Lan, Nynaeve etc) and still headed to Tar Valon. To say that they've changed the overall main arc of the story is just false (at this point).
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:23 am to nopants
quote:
To say that they've changed the overall main arc of the story is just false (at this point).
Not knowing whether the Dragon Reborn is a man or a woman is a major change. Maybe they can walk it back somehow but Moirane said it and she can't lie. I also thought her explanation for how she was able to kill the ferryman was pretty lame.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 8:25 am to YumYum Sauce
quote:
Yeah, some people don't want to be happy.
Some people thought the show should at least start out like the books. Instead it's like someone got a list of characters, a map and a very, very brief outline of the story and went from there.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 9:09 am to shinerfan
quote:
Not knowing whether the Dragon Reborn is a man or a woman is a major change.
Sanderson said yesterday on reddit that the only difference in this adaptation (with regards to this point) is that the Aes Sedai have their lore wrong. Meaning, the Dragon is still a man. It's still Rand. The Aes Sedai just don't know or understand the prophecy correctly and don't know that Souls are gendered.
Overall, this affects the plot very minimally. Like, almost not at all. But, on the flip side, girls/women will get invested in Egwene, and non book readers in general will have fun discussion about who the Dragon Reborn is. I don't mind the change.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 9:10 am
Posted on 11/22/21 at 9:25 am to Rand AlThor
I've mentioned a few times that I'm halfway through book 2. Something in the show has actually helped me with the book. So much information is thrown at you in the books that I forgot that Aes Sedai can't lie. The show reminded me of this. So, now, whenever I am reading dialogue from Moraine, I'm extra focused one whatever she says. She may be talking to someone that doesn't know her motivations and says something that on the surface looks like a lie. Once you break it down, it really isn't. I'm enjoying trying to pick to those things out.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 9:29 am to Fun Bunch
Saw the first episode. I remember when I watched the "It" made for TV miniseries thinking, "Why'd they do that instead of just following the story?" All the pointless changes that served no purpose. They did a lot of that in Wheel of Time.
It also is a very obvious "diversity" pick for the cast and they smutted up the Three Rivers story. The entire point was a simple, innocent, close knit community that was destroyed by real world events. Even if they weren't going to be white (and I'd be fine if they weren't), they should have been homogenous and not been throwing in the smut. It was just awkward, missed the point, and doesn't bode well for the future.
There's also the fact that it's supposed to end in balance and as strong as they're coming on with the girl power, I'm skeptical they're ever going to get to the balance between the sexes that Jordan envisioned.
It also is a very obvious "diversity" pick for the cast and they smutted up the Three Rivers story. The entire point was a simple, innocent, close knit community that was destroyed by real world events. Even if they weren't going to be white (and I'd be fine if they weren't), they should have been homogenous and not been throwing in the smut. It was just awkward, missed the point, and doesn't bode well for the future.
There's also the fact that it's supposed to end in balance and as strong as they're coming on with the girl power, I'm skeptical they're ever going to get to the balance between the sexes that Jordan envisioned.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 9:33 am to squid_hunt
quote:
There's also the fact that it's supposed to end in balance and as strong as they're coming on with the girl power, I'm skeptical they're ever going to get to the balance between the sexes that Jordan envisioned.
Rafe has mentioned in like every interview he has given that the WHeel of Time is about "balance", more than it is necessarily about good v evil.
So
Posted on 11/22/21 at 9:34 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Rafe has mentioned in like every interview he has given that the WHeel of Time is about "balance", more than it is necessarily about good v evil.
We'll see. I'll keep watching, but the first episode didn't seem balanced at all. It seemed like a tribute to Disney destroying Star Wars.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 9:54 am to Rand AlThor
quote:
Sanderson said yesterday on reddit that the only difference in this adaptation (with regards to this point) is that the Aes Sedai have their lore wrong. Meaning, the Dragon is still a man. It's still Rand. The Aes Sedai just don't know or understand the prophecy correctly and don't know that Souls are gendered.
Overall, this affects the plot very minimally. Like, almost not at all. But, on the flip side, girls/women will get invested in Egwene, and non book readers in general will have fun discussion about who the Dragon Reborn is. I don't mind the change.
Completely disagree on this affecting the plot minimally. The Dragon being able to be a man or woman completely changes the world. The Dragon is feared because he caused the breaking of the world so if he could come back as a female channeler then why are Aes Sedai allowed to exist? They would have been hunted down ruthlessly and never allowed to form the White Tower.
Now, I get that for the actual plot it won't matter since Rand will be the Dragon but to say it doesn't matter but it is a giant change to the world.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 10:01 am to MFn GIMP
Moiraine could simply be mistaken and not understand the prophecies, and there is some chatter of that from people that have seen the first 6 episodes.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 10:10 am to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
There was a big WOT interview on The Ringer show with Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin, and Zach somebody from GQ, then the last 30 minutes or so they had Rafe on who had some very interesting comments about the Leila stuff.
Not sure how much of this is going on or going to continue, but if we're going to have to rely on interviews to explain why everything is so off kilter for the rest of the show, then this Rafe guy sucks at storytelling and that shouldn't be a controversial statement. "You guys just aren't getting my vision." is some pretty weak sauce.
And I'm only saying that because I've seen interviews referred to twice on this page alone.
This post was edited on 11/22/21 at 10:11 am
Posted on 11/22/21 at 10:13 am to squid_hunt
Or, 3 episodes isn't enough to tell a story.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 10:20 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Or, 3 episodes isn't enough to tell a story.
Three episodes is plenty to lose your audience due to confusion and frustration at a non-sensical narrative. It's an epic, but it's still plenty of time to set the tone, major characters, major themes, and major conflicts if you were trying to do something other than ram a story through cagey producers. Which I admit, Amazon is infected with.
My point is that I want to see this movie succeed, but after forcing myself through four seasons of the very excruciating Expanse, waiting for it to get better, I'm starting to get the same vibe already with Wheel of Time.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 11:55 am to Rand AlThor
quote:
Imma be real with you. Im not a ultra PC woke guy, but you’re just wrong on this. You just are. Changing this dialogue to make it possibly be Egwene (to the eye of the viewer) affects almost nothing material in the actual story.
Yes it does. It completes changes the entire idea of the separation of the one power in saidar and saidin. The books established that with Balthamel and what the Dark One did with him after.
By changing the core of the series (souls being reborn) it removes a lot of the stakes for what the Dragon Reborn would be for the world.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 12:04 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
There are plenty of legitimate critiques, but complaining about changes overwhelming the story and altering characters, there's just no supporting evidence for any of that.
Shitting all over what EF was in the books is a HUGE deviation.
No Nyn braid tugging. Nuked the Egwene/Rand brother sister relationship.
Randa cavalier attitude towards his bow. Married Perrin. Nah. Don’t see it, man.
Posted on 11/22/21 at 12:11 pm to PhineasFreakaZoid
None of that matters in the slightest and makes complete sense.
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