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Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:37 am to Broski
There is, literally, NO good guy in all of this mess. None.
Not GGG, who should be gone anyway; not Jay; not Claudio; not Danielle; not Gio; not Earnie; not B. McBride. No one.
GGG should have been canned the second that the transcript of his talk was released. GGG should also have been on notice once it became clear what he said to Gio before the tournament. That's shitty coaching, and he painted himself into a corner by thinking that way because he has now said aloud what his coaching moves would be, and if he goes back on them, now what? Plus he demoralized a typical, tempermental young player who also happens to have as much talent as anyone at his disposal.
Claudio and Danielle should be relegated to "fans" if that's at all possible. No more preferential treatment, they've lost that privilege with this travel-ball stereotypical behavior. As well, for the way they did it by bringing up serious "water-under-the-bridge" allegations from 30+ years ago. That's pure chicken shite, I have no respect now, for Claudio who I have always been a fan of. Not that my respect means a hill of beans to anyone else, mind.
Gio should be treated professionally, like every other player, now, in U.S. camp and earn his spot by his training and his form. Period.
USSF desperately needs a house cleaning at the top. If, sadly, that means foreign-born personnel in key positions? Amen, so be it. The same applies to the manager to start a new cycle.
Sucks that this all happened, like this, that a 30+ year friendship has to be ruined. But everyone involved is at fault.
Not GGG, who should be gone anyway; not Jay; not Claudio; not Danielle; not Gio; not Earnie; not B. McBride. No one.
GGG should have been canned the second that the transcript of his talk was released. GGG should also have been on notice once it became clear what he said to Gio before the tournament. That's shitty coaching, and he painted himself into a corner by thinking that way because he has now said aloud what his coaching moves would be, and if he goes back on them, now what? Plus he demoralized a typical, tempermental young player who also happens to have as much talent as anyone at his disposal.
Claudio and Danielle should be relegated to "fans" if that's at all possible. No more preferential treatment, they've lost that privilege with this travel-ball stereotypical behavior. As well, for the way they did it by bringing up serious "water-under-the-bridge" allegations from 30+ years ago. That's pure chicken shite, I have no respect now, for Claudio who I have always been a fan of. Not that my respect means a hill of beans to anyone else, mind.
Gio should be treated professionally, like every other player, now, in U.S. camp and earn his spot by his training and his form. Period.
USSF desperately needs a house cleaning at the top. If, sadly, that means foreign-born personnel in key positions? Amen, so be it. The same applies to the manager to start a new cycle.
Sucks that this all happened, like this, that a 30+ year friendship has to be ruined. But everyone involved is at fault.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 9:26 am
Posted on 1/7/23 at 11:47 am to RedPop4
100%
ETA: what sucks the most about all this is that the youth talent in America is really good right now. Now this had to happen? My gosh they can’t seem to get out of their own way. But i guess this is the blessing in disguise. Go scorched earth and bring in someone not affiliated with the drama
ETA: what sucks the most about all this is that the youth talent in America is really good right now. Now this had to happen? My gosh they can’t seem to get out of their own way. But i guess this is the blessing in disguise. Go scorched earth and bring in someone not affiliated with the drama
This post was edited on 1/7/23 at 11:51 am
Posted on 1/7/23 at 3:37 pm to RedPop4
quote:
There is, literally, NO good guy in all of this mess. None. Not GGG, who should be gone anyway; not Jay; not Claudio; not Danielle; not Gio; not Earnie; not B. McBride. No one.
Amazingly this whole episode has actually made more sympathetic Klingsman’s messaging, and I imagine a lot of his frustrations. No kidding he wanted players abroad and playing out of their comfort zones. He walked into a far too cozy and amateurish organization.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 9:15 am to RedPop4
quote:I'll say this. The only thing that makes me even a little sympathetic to the gio side of this is the fact the decision to not play him seemed to have been made before he had the chance to do that. I wouldnt have handled it the way he did but I wouldve been pissed too.
Gio should be treated professionally, like every other player, now, in U.S. camp and earn his spot by his training and his form. Period.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 9:27 am to Pedro
Right there with you. GGG really screwed the pooch before a ball was tapped in anger. Remember he messed it up with Ricardo Pepi, as well, who hung up on him after GGG told him he didn't make the squad.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:31 am to RedPop4
I've said it before but what makes his coaching decision prior to the world cup even dumber were:
1) Weah being dead tired in the second half of every game and waiting too long to take him off (you have 3 awesome wingers - rotate the minutes effectively)
2) being down 2-0 in the knockout rounds you turn to the same guy you said would have a limited role to play out of position to hopefully drag you back into the game. That takes some world class mental gymnastics
1) Weah being dead tired in the second half of every game and waiting too long to take him off (you have 3 awesome wingers - rotate the minutes effectively)
2) being down 2-0 in the knockout rounds you turn to the same guy you said would have a limited role to play out of position to hopefully drag you back into the game. That takes some world class mental gymnastics
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:47 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
Amazingly this whole episode has actually made more sympathetic Klingsman’s messaging, and I imagine a lot of his frustrations. No kidding he wanted players abroad and playing out of their comfort zones. He walked into a far too cozy and amateurish organization.
Now that we know the results of WC (not really that good given talent pool we have) I wonder how we’d have faired if we had kept our old coach thru this WC. He started changing things at a low level and we do seem to be making better players from the bottom up, but the problem is at the higher level coaching. I always felt he got a bad rap and in some ways this “not renewed” nepotism hire to replace him disaster was vindication.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:15 pm to OU Guy
Guya, don't let last month's embarrassing episode cloud the fact that Klinsmann tried to murder the national team in the 2018 cycle.
All this talk about youth development, but he failed to give it any attention from after the 2014 World Cup till he was fired after the first qualifying window in 2016, despite having ample opportunities to do so (Gold Cup, Copa America, friendlies).
Remember how pissed we were that Pulisic (and Nagbe for that matter) didn't play a second of the Copa America until the 2nd half of a match we had already lost against Argentina. Meanwhile, Beckerman, Wondo, Zusi, Bedoya etc. all got starts.
All this talk about youth development, but he failed to give it any attention from after the 2014 World Cup till he was fired after the first qualifying window in 2016, despite having ample opportunities to do so (Gold Cup, Copa America, friendlies).
Remember how pissed we were that Pulisic (and Nagbe for that matter) didn't play a second of the Copa America until the 2nd half of a match we had already lost against Argentina. Meanwhile, Beckerman, Wondo, Zusi, Bedoya etc. all got starts.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 8:21 pm to OU Guy
quote:
Now that we know the results of WC (not really that good given talent pool we have)
It amazes me how y’all consistently overrate our talent relative to the rest of the world. Look at the rosters of all of the top 8 teams except maybe Morocco and it’s obvious we’ve got a ways to go before we can say that getting to the knockouts is “not really that good.”
Posted on 1/17/23 at 8:23 pm to etm512
quote:
Weah being dead tired in the second half of every game and waiting too long to take him off (you have 3 awesome wingers - rotate the minutes effectively)
I wish Aaronson had played more minutes tbh. I also wish Gio had been give time centrally, specifically for Weston.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 9:42 pm to cwil177
quote:
It amazes me how y’all consistently overrate our talent relative to the rest of the world. Look at the rosters of all of the top 8 teams except maybe Morocco and it’s obvious we’ve got a ways to go before we can say that getting to the knockouts is “not really that good.”
The funny thing is, I'd bet 99% of the people saying the results weren't good enough are the same people that were saying we won't make it out of the group before the tournament.
Gregg shouldn't be the coach, but it's insane how much this board has Gregg Derangement Syndrome. It's to the point where we have people unironically saying Jurgen should've been coaching.
Posted on 1/18/23 at 3:47 am to Broski
2/3 of USMNT Twitter has GDS, and there is a sad amount of overlap with that crowd and this board for some reason. All the guy did was rebuild the team from the ground up after the 2018 failure, get us back to beating Mexico’s arse, win every regional trophy, recruit key dual nationals, qualify for the World Cup with the youngest squad in the world, and get to the knockouts (again with the youngest team to do so). The Gio thing is annoying but ultimately the guy did everything we could have realistically asked for since the day he was hired.
The reality is that the majority of the people still seething about the results are the same ones who hated the guy since day one because of how USSF went about the hiring process (not even GGG’s fault).
I guess a lot of people want to see Pulisic af D mid and Adams on the wing. Big brain shite.
The reality is that the majority of the people still seething about the results are the same ones who hated the guy since day one because of how USSF went about the hiring process (not even GGG’s fault).
quote:
It's to the point where we have people unironically saying Jurgen should've been coaching.
I guess a lot of people want to see Pulisic af D mid and Adams on the wing. Big brain shite.
Posted on 1/18/23 at 7:38 am to cwil177
I feel like we hit Greggs ceiling though. That's my issue, we didn't hit the players ceiling.
He did a good job building the team.
He did a good job building the team.
Posted on 1/18/23 at 8:12 am to cwil177
quote:
It amazes me how y’all consistently overrate our talent relative to the rest of the world. Look at the rosters of all of the top 8 teams except maybe Morocco and it’s obvious we’ve got a ways to go before we can say that getting to the knockouts is “not really that good.”
Even Morocco has some insanely good players. Making the jump to that next tier is going to be difficult. We probably need 40+ players who are at top level leagues playing consistently to reach that tier. Morocco is helped by the fact that their diaspora is mostly trained in France and the Netherlands, which adds to their player pool in a significant way.
Posted on 1/18/23 at 8:57 am to OU Guy
quote:
I wonder how we’d have faired if we had kept our old coach thru this WC.
Klinsmann never would have survived until 2022, and no he didn’t get a bad rap. You could say he did a good job in 2014, but he deserved to be fired during the next cycle.
My issue with the idea of fans supposedly overrating our talent is that, while that may be true, it’s not as big a problem as the manager overrating the talent, which you could say that both JK and Gregg have done, judging by the style of play they’ve tried to instill and the way they’ve managed the roster.
A more pragmatic manager would recognize the lack of quality players and not do things like leaving Donovan off the 2014 team and whatever Gregg did to Gio this time (telling him he would have a “very limited role”, according to Gio).
It’s hard to say. I’m sure lots of us would be pissed if the manager weren’t trying to evolve the national teams style of play, but then again, it doesn’t seem to be working all that well.
(I don’t think “getting out of the group”, without context, is a good judge of a national team manager.)
Posted on 1/18/23 at 9:02 am to cwil177
quote:
It amazes me how y’all consistently overrate our talent relative to the rest of the world.
This all day bruh. I'm glad you said it because if I did I'm working for the Taliban
Posted on 1/18/23 at 9:16 am to Broski
quote:
The funny thing is, I'd bet 99% of the people saying the results weren't good enough are the same people that were saying we won't make it out of the group before the tournament.
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. One can believe that the talent on our team should get us past the knockout round, while also acknowledging that Gregg's style and strategy may not allow the team to get out of group.
Gregg exceeded my expectations, which were already low. That doesn't mean he took the team and talent as far as they could go.
This post was edited on 1/18/23 at 9:21 am
Posted on 1/18/23 at 9:23 am to Girth Donor
quote:
This all day bruh. I'm glad you said it because if I did I'm working for the Taliban
Bro I’m used to being a pariah in this thread so I’m happy to take the lead
Edit: Thanks for the DVs, which I take as a show of support for my non pariah status
This post was edited on 1/18/23 at 8:20 pm
Posted on 1/18/23 at 1:09 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
if the manager weren’t trying to evolve the national teams style of play,
Gregg did try to evolve the style of play though.
That's not even up for debate. Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't, but he definitely wasn't setting up gameplans to just out-hustle or out-pluck opposing teams with more talent like we've been doing since Bora in 94.
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