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re: WTF is wrong with the French?
Posted on 4/15/19 at 11:14 pm to Speckhunter2012
Posted on 4/15/19 at 11:14 pm to Speckhunter2012
I don’t know if we’re going to count Franks or Normans but even still, it’s silly to say the French were always cowards and poor fighters. Just an absurd statement.
2
Posted on 4/16/19 at 12:09 am to biglego
I can usually gauge someone's historical literacy by whether their knowledge of French historical military prowess is based on what their grandpappy told them.
Because France's history has been covered at length already, I would like to point out what WWI did: at the start of WWI, France had just under 40M people, total. They had roughly 1.7M people die, or about 4% of their total population. They had a bit over 4M wounded. So in short, over 14% of their total population was a casualty of WWI. If you drew that out to the military aged adult population, it would be several magnitudes larger. The US had a population of 92M and had 116k deaths.
And then in WWII, France lost another 210k troops. The US lost 410k in the entire damned war with a national population over three times larger.
Did France surrender to save Paris from being burned to ash? Yes. Did they fight tooth and nail for years before doing so? Yes, yes they fricking did.
Because France's history has been covered at length already, I would like to point out what WWI did: at the start of WWI, France had just under 40M people, total. They had roughly 1.7M people die, or about 4% of their total population. They had a bit over 4M wounded. So in short, over 14% of their total population was a casualty of WWI. If you drew that out to the military aged adult population, it would be several magnitudes larger. The US had a population of 92M and had 116k deaths.
And then in WWII, France lost another 210k troops. The US lost 410k in the entire damned war with a national population over three times larger.
Did France surrender to save Paris from being burned to ash? Yes. Did they fight tooth and nail for years before doing so? Yes, yes they fricking did.
This post was edited on 4/16/19 at 12:12 am
Posted on 4/16/19 at 12:18 am to Joshjrn
quote:No, they fricking didn’t.
Did they fight tooth and nail for years before doing so? Yes, yes they fricking did.
Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939. France declared war on Germany 2 days later on 9/3/1939.
France surrendered to the Germans on June 22, 1940, or about 9 1/2 months after they entered the war.
There was no “for years” before they surrendered.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 12:24 am to Joshjrn
quote:
Did France surrender to save Paris from being burned to ash? Yes. Did they fight tooth and nail for years before doing so? Yes, yes they fricking did.
France surrendered in 6 weeks to Germany...from the start of Germany's invasion of Western Europe.
They literally didn't put up a fight.
Granted they took the brunt of WWI and probably didn't have the manpower and were just so disillusioned with War.
You can defend France during Napolean's reign and WWI.
But don't bring up WWII...they literally put up no resistance...compared to the heroic fighting of the Russians.
France caved and made deals with the enemy...basically partnering with them overnight.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 12:30 am to LSURussian
Yea, that seemed weird to say to me, too, but I think it’s fair to say that between the 1940 army, the FFF, and the Resistance, the French fought pretty damn hard. Most of the French who fought and died with the Axis were conscripted Alsatians.
I do think it’s critical to understand the effect WWI had on France, though. No other country - including Britain or Germany - suffered quite like that or had such a casualty rate. To put it into numbers that many might understand, a similar casualty rate for today’s America would have:
- ~13 - 14 million dead
- ~30 - 32 million wounded
That is staggering to think about. That’s USSR WW2 level suffering.
I do think it’s critical to understand the effect WWI had on France, though. No other country - including Britain or Germany - suffered quite like that or had such a casualty rate. To put it into numbers that many might understand, a similar casualty rate for today’s America would have:
- ~13 - 14 million dead
- ~30 - 32 million wounded
That is staggering to think about. That’s USSR WW2 level suffering.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 12:34 am to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:
This is why I dont respond to fricking cucks like you
This thread proves otherwise.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 12:34 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
They literally didn't put up a fight.
And yet they had a significantly higher casualty rate fighting the Germans than did the US for our entirety in the war (much less just the ETO).
200,000 out of a population of 40MM vs. 420,000 out of a population of 130MM
And that’s not including almost half a million humanitarian deaths in France at the time.
This post was edited on 4/16/19 at 12:37 am
Posted on 4/16/19 at 1:12 am to AbuTheMonkey
You shifted the goalposts.
The point was, they literally didn't put up a fight to defend their country from an initial attack.
But were part of the Allied force later. Once the UK and US joined the fight and mobilized the forces.
But there's no denying they gave up so quickly.
Did they suffer? Yes. Did they suffer terribly in WWI? Yes.
That's the entirety of the War. That's once we entered it basically. No one is talking about their sacrifice. The point was they didn't defend at all costs, they rolled over.
Maybe from the history or horrors of WWI but they didn't put up a fight - they joined the fight, but they didn't put up a fight when it was just them against Germany.
You say they didn't want Paris to be burned to the ground...well Russia defended at all costs and burned their own land to the ground.
The point was, they literally didn't put up a fight to defend their country from an initial attack.
But were part of the Allied force later. Once the UK and US joined the fight and mobilized the forces.
But there's no denying they gave up so quickly.
Did they suffer? Yes. Did they suffer terribly in WWI? Yes.
quote:
200,000 out of a population of 40MM vs. 420,000 out of a population of 130MM
That's the entirety of the War. That's once we entered it basically. No one is talking about their sacrifice. The point was they didn't defend at all costs, they rolled over.
Maybe from the history or horrors of WWI but they didn't put up a fight - they joined the fight, but they didn't put up a fight when it was just them against Germany.
You say they didn't want Paris to be burned to the ground...well Russia defended at all costs and burned their own land to the ground.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 7:02 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The French Fleet at Yorktown won the war.
Plus, the French had more regular soldiers (marines) on the ground at Yorktown than the Americans.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 7:22 am to Rohan Gravy
It was the Keystone Cops all over again. They were not prepared, had no plan, and were uncertain how to stop the fire. They do not deserve to watch over artistic treasure. Pity the Louvre. We have not seen the cause in detail, but I'd bet all sorts of rules were being broken, with the authorities prancing around in self importance, acting as if they had all contingencies covered.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 7:37 am to Rohan Gravy
The French have never been the same since the Nazis captured Le Beau and sent him to Stalag 13.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 7:44 am to Dead End
quote:
If you don't put the fire out the structure will NOT survive.
They put the fire out. The structure did survive enough to be fully restored.
Could you imagine how much additional damage would have occurred if they released literal tons of water onto Notre Dame from a tanker plane? We'd be looking at a pile of rubble.
This post was edited on 4/16/19 at 7:45 am
Posted on 4/16/19 at 7:52 am to biglego
quote:
Just an absurd statement.
Whole thread.
Firemen went in during the height of it to bring out artifacts.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 7:53 am to Rohan Gravy
quote:
WTF is wrong with the French?
Just being themselves
Posted on 4/16/19 at 8:32 am to LSURussian
quote:
There was no “for years” before they surrendered.
With as much emphasis as my post placed on WWI, I’m not sure why anyone would interpret my statement about “fighting for years” to solely be referencing WWII.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 9:00 am to Joshjrn
quote:This was your statement that I replied to:
With as much emphasis as my post placed on WWI, I’m not sure why anyone would interpret my statement about “fighting for years” to solely be referencing WWII.
quote:Are you saying this part of your post was "referencing" World War I??
Did France surrender to save Paris from being burned to ash? Yes. Did they fight tooth and nail for years before doing so? Yes, yes they fricking did.
If it is, let me enlighten you.
The French did not surrender in WWI. But they did surrender in WWII.
That's why I believed you were "referencing" WWII and not WWI in the part of the post I replied to previously, counselor.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 9:10 am to burdhead
That is not true regarding the French being cowards historically.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 9:10 am to LSURussian
Also aware that they did not surrender in WWI. Which is why I said they fought tooth and nail for years (over the span of WWI and the start of WWII) before ultimately surrendering.
I apologize for any ambiguity. I thought the foundation I had laid would make clear what I was trying to convey.
I apologize for any ambiguity. I thought the foundation I had laid would make clear what I was trying to convey.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 9:13 am to Sid in Lakeshore
Agree. The French are just a convenient target for misinformed wannabe badasses.
Posted on 4/16/19 at 9:51 am to VOR
I'm thinking the same people that designed the "Maginot Line" also designed the fire protection systems for Notre Dame...
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