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re: Would you vote for an open atheist for national political office?

Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:05 pm to
Posted by Strophie
Member since Apr 2014
438 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:05 pm to
quote:

The definition is a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods


quote:

Atheist is the antithetical, i.e., one who believes there is no god.




Politely, you either don't understand the English language definition, or you are trolling me. I'm going to assume the latter.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:06 pm to


Well, if you ever make it up to Navarre Beach, we'll throw a couple lines in, open a bottle of something good, and pass out on the beach.
Posted by The First Cut
Member since Apr 2012
14817 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:06 pm to
quote:

That is entirely different from general contempt for Islam.


Contempt for the theocracy of Islam =\= contempt for the Islamic faith.
Posted by Strophie
Member since Apr 2014
438 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:06 pm to
quote:

As does atheism


Okay. Name one? I always want to make sure I'm basing my own world view off the best available evidence, so I'd love to see if I have a blind spot in my thinking.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127393 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:07 pm to
He did not create you to be fallible. He created you to have a free will and the ability to enter into a loving relationship. He did all of that knowing you would reject that same relationship. Knowing your rejection (e.g. sin) would require a sacrifice He still (unbelievably) created man.

And think that is an amazing and loving thing.

No created being has to suffer the second death in the Lake of Fire (the more correct rendering). He provided a means for all to have an open and loving relationship with Him. Man chooses to reject that sacrifice.
Posted by Jake88
Member since Apr 2005
79993 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:08 pm to
I would if the person was conservative and wasn't attempting to push a minimization of religion in America
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:08 pm to
There is a large gap between putting man and his god on equal footing, and saying man is comparable to a piece of pottery.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:09 pm to
quote:

Contempt for the theocracy of Islam =\= contempt for the Islamic faith.


I never made such a claim.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138978 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

Politely, you either don't understand the English language
Politely, you don't understand the Greek language from which the term atheos originates. More importantly, you don't understand that faith in any unprovable absolute is a belief. The silliness of your claim would be matched by my claim that theism is the lack of belief there is no god.
This post was edited on 12/20/16 at 7:12 pm
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127393 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:11 pm to
Why would man have any degree of uniqueness without a creative act? They are simply another evolved animal. No better, no worse.

And he is correct, Romans makes it clear that man has no place to ask God why He did what He did.

Isaiah 45:9 and Romans 9:20,21

Don't have to believe it, but that is the viewpoint of biblical Christianity.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Member since Nov 2009
127393 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:13 pm to
Will do breh
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46863 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

He created us. To create us solely to condemn us by default seems malevolent. Why would I want to believe in, let alone worship, a God that takes this course of action?
The intent wasn't to condemn us. God created Adam as representative for the whole human race. The intent was that Adam would reproduce and be God's holy servants forever, living forever and worshiping God. The blame can rest on Adam for his sin, not God. And not all of us are condemned. That's why Christians are told to preach the Gospel, so that God would use it to save many people who otherwise deserve to be damned. Giving an "out" to people who don't deserve it doesn't seem malevolent to me.

quote:

Condemning all of humanity because of something their ancient ancestor did is asinine. So my default position as a human is being condemned to hell unless I believe in a God who provides me no tangible (or otherwise) evidence of his existence. A god who gives me a rational brain and intelligence and the ability to think about things critically. And then by using those same faculties, which he consciously created me to have, and reaching the conclusion that he doesn't exist, I solidify my own damnation based on the preexisting condition of being made by him.

Do you see how this makes absolutely zero sense? "God loves me unconditionally and cares about me before I'm ever conceived" and "God condemns me to hell because 'reasons' since I don't believe in him after critically examining the world he put me in and the lack of evidence he provides after he chose to make me, so now I burn in hell for all time" are two scenarios that seem somewhat mutually exclusive. AT BEST, they seem idiotically diametrically opposed.
There's almost too much to respond to there

1. Federalism is not asinine, especially when salvation comes the same way as damnation (via a fedearl head)

2. "No evidence" is not accurate. You just reject the evidence that exists because it doesn't measure up to your own standard.

3. Those who believe in Christ also have faculties and reason and they put them to good use. Some brilliant men and women profess faith in Christ. Reason and faith are not mutually exclusive.

4. God's love and God's justice are two sides of the same coin and aren't opposed to one another, just misunderstood.

I'll leave it at that for now.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:17 pm to
quote:

Why would man have any degree of uniqueness without a creative act?


Why wouldn't he?

quote:

They are simply another evolved animal. No better, no worse. 


This is only true if we evolve the same as every other animal. We don't.

quote:

And he is correct, Romans makes it clear that man has no place to ask God why He did what He did. 


Sure, but there are many passages that speak of God's love for man. That certainly gives us a place above ants and poorly made coffee mugs.
Posted by The First Cut
Member since Apr 2012
14817 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

I'm condemned as a result of breaking the arbitrary thresholds of what constitutes sin (like lusting after a woman who's not my wife). And yet it's not possible for me, as a rational critical person, to believe in God based on the those same faculties, which he gave me.


Who said you're condemned? I don't think you're getting this whole Christ thing.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138978 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

As does atheism


Okay. Name one?
Spontaneous origin or infinite existence of matter
This post was edited on 12/20/16 at 7:20 pm
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
46863 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:20 pm to
quote:

Faith is the word you're looking for. It's fine if that's what it comes down to, but don't conflate that with evidence.
Faith is belief and trust in something without full knowledge or understanding. I'm not conflating faith with evidence. You can have a little bit of evidence and use that as the basis for your faith. That happens a lot with conspiracy theories. It can even happen in a court settings, where there is evidence that produces belief in guilt or innocence that may be contrary to the truth. Without being omniscient and omnipresent, we have to take a lot on faith, even with strong evidence. Evidence can and does lead to faith, though they are not the same thing.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:21 pm to
quote:

You can have a little bit of evidence and use that as the basis for your faith.


Present your evidence.
Posted by The First Cut
Member since Apr 2012
14817 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

Faith is belief and trust


Faith in God is about trusting God, not just "believing".

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138978 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

Present your evidence.
existence
Posted by ljhog
Lake Jackson, Tx.
Member since Apr 2009
20591 posts
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:23 pm to
Nope
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