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re: Would you vote for an open atheist for national political office?
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:24 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:24 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Who is to make the value judgment that we have evolved better than other animals? I would have to say there is much evidence we have not.
But that is just a value judgment
We are the most precious of God's creation. We have been created in His image. However, that does not give us the place to question His judgment. This is probably one of the most ingrained and difficult concepts I have to overcome. It does not seem fair and in reality it is not. But that is not the point.
But that is just a value judgment
We are the most precious of God's creation. We have been created in His image. However, that does not give us the place to question His judgment. This is probably one of the most ingrained and difficult concepts I have to overcome. It does not seem fair and in reality it is not. But that is not the point.
1
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:29 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Who is to make the value judgment that we have evolved better than other animals? I would have to say there is much evidence we have not.
We put other animals in zoos. We have completely eradicated entire species, while exponentially increasing our numbers. We're better.
quote:
However, that does not give us the place to question His judgment.
That isn't my argument. My argument is that we're more important to the Christian god than a discarded piece of ceramic.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:29 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:A man who creates a piece of pottery (no matter how much its arbitrary value is) does not owe anything to the pottery and he can dispose of it as he sees fit. This is literally the example the Bible gives to illustrate our place before God. We are His creation and He can do with us as He pleases.
There is a large gap between putting man and his god on equal footing, and saying man is comparable to a piece of pottery
It seems you take exception to this comparison because of perceived value of humans compared to value of a piece of clay formed into a vase or a pot. Value, however, is subjective when talking about each other. People claim an unborn human is worth less than a born one. People claim a rapist is worth less than an upstanding citizen. Some people even claim that humans are worth less than nature or animals. Why is it wrong for God to "dispose" of His creation when it is fine for a mother to "dispose" of the human she created before its born? There are differing views of value and worth, but it still boils down to God being above all else and we are His creation, with less value than God, himself.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:29 pm to NC_Tigah
We exist. I agree.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:35 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
example the Bible gives
I agree with that. It's also meaningless.
quote:
It seems you take exception to this comparison because of perceived value of humans compared to value of a piece of clay formed into a vase or a pot.
Correct, and a contradictory book written by relative primitives doesn't sway that.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:38 pm to NC_Tigah
I don't have faith in an unprovable absolute. I make no absolute claims. I simply fail to accept your absolute claim of there being a God. The burden of proof doesn't rest with me. There is no faith requirement.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:39 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Oh look, Buckeye found a graphic on the internet generated by someone of little or no biblical acumen.
If it's on the internet, it must be true.
If it's on the internet, it must be true.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:39 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Numerical strength means we are better? Do you even Planet of the Apes bro?
And yes, we are absolutely precious to God. Precious enough that He provided the only possible means of redemption through the sacrifice of His only Son. I would have to say we are pretty important.
Even Ohio State fans
And yes, we are absolutely precious to God. Precious enough that He provided the only possible means of redemption through the sacrifice of His only Son. I would have to say we are pretty important.
Even Ohio State fans
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:40 pm to Strophie
quote:So you are agnostic.
I don't have faith in an unprovable absolute . . . I simply fail to accept your absolute claim of there being a God.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:40 pm to Strophie
If their is proof, there can be no faith.
We don't have faith in the Laws of Gravity.
We don't have faith in the Laws of Gravity.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:41 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:I will present the evidence that speaks to and convinces me with the understanding that it may not persuade you or anyone else.
Present your evidence
There are others, but here are the ones I would like to mention.
The primary evidence is the Holy Spirit's testimony to my heart, mind, and soul, which is very compelling to me, but unfortunately cannot be "shown" to others who don't have the same work in themselves.
I believe creation itself speaks to God's existence. I see it when I look at the mountains or view a beautiful sunset.
The Bible is an evidence, but not just the compilation of words, itself, but what the words say. I've read it and it is an evidence to the truth that is convincing to me.
Interactions with the world (people, specifically) are an evidence of the truth of the Bible and of sin and salvation as seen in the lives of others.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:41 pm to NC_Tigah
Man you're obtuse. I'm going to respectfully step out of discussing this with you, because you obviously don't adhere to the english definition. That's your call, but this is meaningless if you don't agree with the same definition I do.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:43 pm to Strophie
Man, religious threads seem to generate lots of posts!
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:45 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:If you would like to devolve into a discussion about specific "contradictions", feel free to do so. Neither I nor any other person who has studied the history of the Bible would claim that the copies we have today are free from error, though I would claim it is free from error in terms of spiritual truths. The claim is that the original texts were free from error. We can get into textual criticism if you'd like, as well.
I agree with that. It's also meaningless.
Correct, and a contradictory book written by relative primitives doesn't sway that
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:45 pm to Strophie
quote:Either you don't know me, or understand the issue, or you don't understand the term obtuse.
Man you're obtuse.
quote:Sweetheart, it's a term of Greek, not English origin.
because you obviously don't adhere to the english definition.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:47 pm to Revelator
quote:Yes they do
Man, religious threads seem to generate lots of posts!
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:47 pm to NC_Tigah
I know you didn't sweetheart him.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:49 pm to The First Cut
quote:He went there
I know you didn't sweetheart him.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:50 pm to The First Cut
quote:
I know you didn't sweetheart him.
Posted on 12/20/16 at 7:51 pm to Strophie
quote:
Strophie
You're not condemned by your sins or the sins of your predecessors. That's what Christianity is all about - grace.
Good luck in your journey.
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