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re: Woke NYT writer sent kid to troubled schools as a sacrifice, it did not go as planned
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:46 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:46 pm to 4cubbies
When your kids are a little older and are subject to hoodrat violence, maybe you'll wake up to the flaw in your plan. There are two reasons to keep your kids out of those schools: 1) academic issues; and 2) physical safety.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:50 pm to 4cubbies
quote:it will be vastly inferior 99.9% of the time. And the only times it won't be will be in special schools where the students are select and they happen to be minority. I would venture to say there's not a single School in the whole country greater than 40% black that is drawing from the general population that you would ever want to send your child to.
my entire argument is that kids can get a good education even alongside mostly black and brown kids
Posted on 9/21/26 at 11:29 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
kids can get a good education even alongside mostly black and brown kids. A school having a large population of black and brown kids doesn’t automatically mean it’s a bad school.
You understand the reason you're getting this is that every time poor academic performance (mostly on standardized tests) among the black community comes up, it's always blamed on substandard schools.
Right?
If the vast majority of black students DON'T go to substandard schools, then what is the alternate explanation?
Posted on 9/21/26 at 11:37 pm to LEOPOLD2
quote:My kids go to an open enrollment school. It was my first choice. Same for the other white families I’m friends with who have their kids there. Your experience isn’t everyone’s experience.
it will be vastly inferior 99.9% of the time. And the only times it won't be will be in special schools where the students are select and they happen to be minority. I would venture to say there's not a single School in the whole country greater than 40% black that is drawing from the general population that you would ever want to send your child to.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 11:45 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:i see teachers blamed a lot here. And unions.
You understand the reason you're getting this is that every time poor academic performance (mostly on standardized tests) among the black community comes up, it's always blamed on substandard schools.
Right?
quote:
If the vast majority of black students DON'T go to substandard schools, then what is the alternate explanation?
Why do we feel comfortable condemning or exalting entire schools based primarily on the proficiency rates of the students who happen to attend them? Those scores tell us something about student achievement. They don’t, by themselves, tell us how much of that achievement was caused by the school.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 11:55 pm to 4cubbies
Remember when you went to high school, and didn't know how to act around other humans, based on their skin color? Your parents failed you, and now you will fail your own children because you've acknowledged you're socially challenged and feel compelled to atone for it. It's also is extremely detrimental that you're a dumb count on top of all of this ingrained racism
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:17 am to rocksteady
Idk. I was senior class president and elected to the dance courts so my classmates were able to move past my social gaffes. And you apparently still don’t know how to behave with social grace or tact around other humans so I’m not sure how valuable or valid you think your criticism is.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:45 am to 4cubbies
Social gaffes huh? Any input on why you think you didn't know how to behave around people who didn't look like you? Any thoughts on why you're boastful about the demographics of schools/day cares your children attend?
I don't need to be a psychologist to diagnosis your major malfunction (one of)
Your nurture, or lack thereof, is why you're stupid and doomed to repeat it. You've been given exhaustive 'social grace' and still continue to receive it, but the number of people running out is increasing.
I don't need to be a psychologist to diagnosis your major malfunction (one of)
Your nurture, or lack thereof, is why you're stupid and doomed to repeat it. You've been given exhaustive 'social grace' and still continue to receive it, but the number of people running out is increasing.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 9:04 am to 4cubbies
quote:
i see teachers blamed a lot here. And unions.
I'm not talking about here, I'm talking about the mainstream narrative.
quote:
Why do we feel comfortable condemning or exalting entire schools based primarily on the proficiency rates of the students who happen to attend them?
My first response to that is that either the school is responsible for educating the kids or it isn't. In other words, does the school make the students or do the students make the school?
I have an opinion on that, but again, my opinion is not the mainstream opinion.
Mainstream narrative seems to be saying that the school makes the students, and that black kids go to inferior schools, and that's why they don't score as high on standardized tests.
Do you agree with that narrative?
If not, then I don't see an alternative to concluding that the black students are incapable of learning as much as the white students no matter what the school does.
Although I'm wide open to a third possibility if you have one.
And again, all of this is only in the context of explaining to you why you're getting some of the responses you're getting. Because the mainstream narrative is what it is.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 10:21 am to wackatimesthree
Urban public schools are in a doom loop of failure.
Black parents blame “the system” and “lack of resources.” (The shitty school that Hannah sent her kid to gets just shy of $60,000/student.)
Teachers blame lack of funding, and parents for absolutely disastrous educational outcomes.
Our educational colleges are captured by Marxist rhetoric and framework. Wherein the students are to be turned into activists rather than to learn anything both at the college and in the schools where the graduates of the college will be teaching.
The unions blame everyone but themselves. And they don’t give a shite what the educational outcomes are.
Most administrators think that their job is to get the buses to run on time and to have school meals delivered. They have zero idea on how to be an instructional leader for their teachers, so the teachers can actually impact the learning of the students. I think this is one of the key reasons that most schools are simply a reflection of the demographic makeup of the school rather than able to actually impact learning.
Our school boards are run by mostly incompetent Idiots were more concerned with facilities than they are with student achievement, and many of those school boards have been trained by the national school board Association, which is a piece and pile of shite.
Too to bottom our entire education system has been corrupted through neglect. Not of resources we’ve spent trillions of dollars on education. It’s the neglect that flows from the idea that we’re doing good enough. And we’re graduating kids from high school that have no idea what education even is.
Throw in Covid, where they reset the bar to a previously unimaginable lower level and our public school system looks like a wasteland.
And this all leaves out the chaotic culture of non-disciplined feral children that rule schools through the whims of their unregulated nervous systems.
Black parents blame “the system” and “lack of resources.” (The shitty school that Hannah sent her kid to gets just shy of $60,000/student.)
Teachers blame lack of funding, and parents for absolutely disastrous educational outcomes.
Our educational colleges are captured by Marxist rhetoric and framework. Wherein the students are to be turned into activists rather than to learn anything both at the college and in the schools where the graduates of the college will be teaching.
The unions blame everyone but themselves. And they don’t give a shite what the educational outcomes are.
Most administrators think that their job is to get the buses to run on time and to have school meals delivered. They have zero idea on how to be an instructional leader for their teachers, so the teachers can actually impact the learning of the students. I think this is one of the key reasons that most schools are simply a reflection of the demographic makeup of the school rather than able to actually impact learning.
Our school boards are run by mostly incompetent Idiots were more concerned with facilities than they are with student achievement, and many of those school boards have been trained by the national school board Association, which is a piece and pile of shite.
Too to bottom our entire education system has been corrupted through neglect. Not of resources we’ve spent trillions of dollars on education. It’s the neglect that flows from the idea that we’re doing good enough. And we’re graduating kids from high school that have no idea what education even is.
Throw in Covid, where they reset the bar to a previously unimaginable lower level and our public school system looks like a wasteland.
And this all leaves out the chaotic culture of non-disciplined feral children that rule schools through the whims of their unregulated nervous systems.
This post was edited on 9/22/26 at 10:23 am
Posted on 9/22/26 at 10:39 am to wackatimesthree
quote:The argument seems to be that we know certain schools are inferior because their students have low test scores and students have low test scores because they attend inferior schools.
does the school make the students or do the students make the school?
Causation is never really attempted or determined.
quote:I do not. Educational outcomes are tied closely to SES, and so is race. SES explain standardized test scores more accurately than race, imo. Of course, SES obviously isn't destiny and doesn't determine a child's aptitude, but many conditions associated with economic disadvantage can affect educational opportunity and academic performance
Mainstream narrative seems to be saying that the school makes the students, and that black kids go to inferior schools, and that's why they don't score as high on standardized tests.
Do you agree with that narrative?
I have a different perspective because I taught in segregated schools for nearly a decade. I taught predominately poor black students. They weren't a monolith, but my students who excelled generally shared some characteristics: at least one parent who was very engaged in the child's life.
I do believe my kids go to an excellent school. But my 4th grader was having trouble with fractions. I sat down with him and watched him attempt to solve a problem. I showed him a few different strategies and finally said "this is how I teach my adults who struggle with fractions," and showed him another strategy that didn't involve any pictures or anything. He preferred that one and got it. I only know this because I took the time to sit down with him and identify his misconceptions and I know multiple ways of teaching people about fractions from being a teacher.
At parent teacher conferences last week, my daughter's teacher said he she is always asking for more work in math class because she finishes quickly. He framed it very positively but I've noticed she isn't getting 100% on all of her math assignments that come home. Yesterday after school, I asked her if she just rushes through math without carefully checking her work. WE went over a recent assignment that was not a 100%. She's having some trouble with subtraction involving regrouping (like 22-18 or 64-36). I watched her solve and modeled a different strategy and had her practice it.
Even though I do believe they attend an excellent school, my kids needed support in math. Of course, it's possible and even likely that they would have received more support at school if they were still struggling as the units progressed, but they got the extra support at home early instead. Does the school deserve credit when my son answers fractions problems correctly on the state test? Do you see what I'm getting at? .
Posted on 9/22/26 at 11:39 am to wackatimesthree
quote:NHJ (the woke NYT writer) sent her daughter to Black inner city schools. Her daughter is intelligent and interested in academics. Yet, she emerged from the 1° system performing substantially below grade-level. Both the daughter and her friends understood that the school system was a condemnation of potentially good students to underperformance.
You understand the reason you're getting this is that every time poor academic performance (mostly on standardized tests) among the black community comes up, it's always blamed on substandard schools.
As critical theorists do, NHJ rejected that fairly straight-forward premise. Apparently you do as well. NHJ acknowledges her rational obstinance in her excuse-laden article. After all, she is an activist who will literally never call out POC, such as the ones running the horrendous urban schools she sent her daughter to.
Yet, despite her CT premise that these schools, run by POC, were a great alternative for her daughter, here is what she admitted.
quote:
I witnessed how dismissive school officials could be to lower-income parents who lodged complaints or made demands for resources.
quote:
I decided to visit during the lunch period and was shocked by what I saw. Najya’s class and another class were sitting at their tables in the cafeteria with no lunch and no adult supervision. Children were running wild, chasing, hitting and pushing each other while the teacher’s aides and cafeteria workers stood by looking bored.
quote:
It was not the children that horrified me — kids of all incomes are rambunctious at lunchtime. It was the callous disregard of the adults.
quote:
Najya’s principal regularly wouldn’t engage with us or wasn’t in the building at all. In Najya’s third-grade year, her teacher missed a significant number of days, leading Najya to complain about the substitute teachers who rarely taught and how sometimes there was no substitute at all. On those days she and other students would be sent to the second-grade or sometimes the kindergarten class, where they would be made to work on their own
quote:
At the first parent-teacher conference in November 2019, Najya’s teachers told us that she was not performing on grade-level in any of her academic subjects and that her assessment given at the start of the school year had shown she was not a proficient reader. We were perplexed. Najya was always a good student, and her past reading assessments were always at or above grade level.
When we got home that night, I emailed her teachers and copied the principal. We needed to understand why our daughter was suddenly floundering. I told them that we wanted to see Najya’s reading assessment and all her graded classroom work so we could determine what she didn’t understand and get her tutoring. I was trying to signal that we were active and involved parents, that we wanted to be partners with them in our daughter’s success.
Neither of Najya’s teachers nor the principal bothered to respond. What followed was a series of emails and phone calls and meetings trying to get basic items — copies of Najya’s graded work, her reading assessment, her test results — and receiving nothing.
quote:
What became clear to me was that Najya’s teacher had most likely never performed the school’s mandatory reading assessments for Najya or any of her classmates
quote:It goes on and on.
Finally, a few days before school let out for winter break, I received a folder in Najya’s backpack with the math assignments I had been requesting since our conference. Once I tucked her into bed, I sat at my dining room table and scanned one page, then another and another. None of them were graded. I started checking Najya’s work and discovered most of her answers were wrong. Najya believed herself to be good at math — it was her favorite subject. But now I understood she thought she was correctly solving all her problems because her teacher was not checking her work. Similarly, Najya’s writing assignments were rife with uncorrected punctuation, capitalization and grammar errors.
You can blame whomever you'd like in this travesty. You can excuse whomever you'd like. But this very clearly is a system problem. If what is described here by an empathetic voice is typical of our urban school system, it is no wonder Black parents were brought to tears when school choice in DC was eliminated. It is no wonder they were begging corrupt politicians and union officials to please give the kids who were academically interested, a chance to learn.
So whether or not "it's always blamed on substandard schools," substandard schools are absolutely a major contributor.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 11:57 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
it is no wonder Black parents were brought to tears when school choice in DC was eliminated. It is no wonder they were begging corrupt politicians and union officials to please give the kids who were academically interested, a chance to learn.
NC, you are proponent of school choice. I'm kind of pivoting here, so bear with me.
Many of the traditional arguments supporting school choice hinge on the idea that choice will result in better outcomes for students because schools will be forced to compete for students.
Years ago, there was a charter school in New Orleans that outperformed the state average in standardized test scores. This school had a large population of students in special education. At the time this school was opened, I don't believe there was a tiered funding mechanism in place that provided additional money to schools serving students IEPs. Although parents were happy with the school and it was performing well, it was underfunded and ultimately had to close due to its financial situation.
This really demonstrates the unrealistic nature of neoliberal policies like charter schools. Using market forces to determine efficiency makes little sense when market forces don't determine the budget, as well. I'm curious what you think about that.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:01 pm to 4cubbies
quote:So, I am curious. Obviously these are multifactorial issues. However for example, the Baltimore System is notorious for horrible academic results. Is 10-12% academic proficiency in that district a function of unique incapacity of the attending students?
The argument seems to be that we know certain schools are inferior because their students have low test scores and students have low test scores because they attend inferior schools.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:05 pm to 4cubbies
quote:I think success, and successful models should be funded. Period.
I'm curious what you think about that.
So the question is, why was that not done in this instance?
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:27 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
So the question is, why was that not done in this instance?
The funding structures for public education are fixed. In Louisiana, funding is largely determined through the MFP formula. At the time this particular school was operating, New Orleans was transitioning toward a more differentiated funding system for students with IEPs based on the intensity of their needs. This particular school had adopted a model it believed was necessary to educate its population effectively, including two teachers in every classroom. But the cost of that model exceeded the revenue generated under the applicable funding structure.
Obviously, there are good reasons to allocate public money according to an established formula rather than simply allowing individual schools to determine what they should receive. In a conventional market, a successful provider whose costs exceed revenue can raise its price. A charter school can't simply decide that its successful model costs $3,000 more per student and charge accordingly. So how does competition determine which model is actually efficient when the revenue side of the equation is administratively constrained?
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:30 pm to UptownJoeBrown
I think Stalin said:
Why would I trade a General for a private?
Why would I trade a General for a private?
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:32 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Is 10-12% academic proficiency in that district a function of unique incapacity of the attending students?
Without being super familiar with this school district, my inclination is to say NO These students are not uniquely dim. Student outcomes, whether positive or negative, can rarely be attributed to single factors.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 1:31 pm to UptownJoeBrown
quote:
In WW2, Stalin’s son was captured by the Germans. Germany wanted to trade him for a German General. Stalin said no and his son died in a POW camp.
And? Stalin made the right move as a leader in this situation. Unfortunate for his son
Posted on 9/22/26 at 2:01 pm to 4cubbies
quote:There are multiple models for that.
So how does competition determine which model is actually efficient when the revenue side of the equation is administratively constrained?
1) Fixed cost per student taking into account grade level, special needs, etc.
2) Fixed based cost per student, with faculty/performance incentives
3) Performance based reimbursement
I'd also suggest, for disruptive students, a boot-camp style school alternative perhaps as an adjunct to juvenile penitentiaries. The premise would be keeping these kids out of real penitentiaries, encouraging discipline, and giving all involved their best chance to succeed. Students obviously lacking academic capacity should be offered a transition to blue-collar prepatory environments, aka trade school instead of wasting time in an environment not designed for them.
As you know, my mother taught HS in a public school system. Faculty reimbursement was allotted on a salary plus incentive basis. Incentives were were based on student/faculty evaluations, student test performance, and the teacher's educational level. As a result, there were PhD's, master's degree, and master's degree plus members of the faculty. Faculty reimbursement was 2-4x that of Louisiana public schools. (She taught at parochial schools in Louisiana prior to moving, where reimbursement was even lower).
Public schools in her Grosse Pointe system performed on level, or outperformed, parochial and private schools in the same region, and were regarded as some of the best in the nation. Granted, it was an atypical situation in which funding was very good (e.g., her school had a telescope/observatory). But it goes to show that public schools in this country can work.
I would argue successful school systems like that should be converted to a limited magnet model, drawing neighboring community high-level academic students on a funding supplemented basis. However, Detroit schools objected based on the NHJ premise that losing their best students would negatively affect an already underperforming, corrupt system. Grosse Pointe schools objected because politicians refused to allow money to flow with students.
This post was edited on 9/22/26 at 2:05 pm
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