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re: Will never understand why libertarians get mad at republicans
Posted on 9/21/26 at 9:15 pm to DeBoar
Posted on 9/21/26 at 9:15 pm to DeBoar
We had some libertarian scrub run for Congress in our district in the Republican primary who was a Massie bootlicker. You would’ve thought he was a Democrat with the way he went after Trump and the GOP on a daily basis. Don’t think he attacked the Democrats once.
He got trounced.
He got trounced.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 9:15 pm to DeBoar
Conservative and libertarian are the same thing at the federal level.
Libertarian is how many conservatives vote as a protest vote when republicans are being big government shills instead of conservatives.
Libertarian is how many conservatives vote as a protest vote when republicans are being big government shills instead of conservatives.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 9:22 pm to DeBoar
quote:
Especially when they support Massie who has a big (R) next to his name.
Well, Massie is a libertarian so...
The big (R) was necessary for him to get elected to begin with.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 9:56 pm to stuntman
quote:
He's the ONE GUY who actually voted how Republicans campaigned, and you hate him for it.
The problem comes when we need the government for things like deportations, and he still votes no.
The reality is he's not getting the single issue bills, so being principled turns into being obstinate.
MAGA elected Trump on an anti-immigration platform more than anything. Massie chose to put his personal principles above the will of the people. The people wanted deportations regardless of the cost. Massie didn't.
That's why he was voted out.
Principles collide and priorities take over. Having different priorities for conservative values than another conservative based on the situation doesn't make you a better or worse conservative.
Massie supporters act like it does, but it just means you're a conservative with a different opinion. Sometimes, you have to acquiesce to the will of the group to make it stronger.
A cart being pulled in opposite directions goes nowhere. It makes more sense for the people to decide the direction and then have everyone work towards that goal even if you don't fully agree.
That's just how groups with similar political goals are supposed to work. One group can't always get their way, and shouldn't fight the other when they don't.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 9:58 pm to DeBoar
because they are above the fray assholes who would rather make statements than accomplish anything
Posted on 9/21/26 at 9:59 pm to DeBoar
What’s wrong with being more right wing than your parents?
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:00 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
Massie was defeated by APAC because he was going after opening up the Epstein investigation which was a Mossad honey pot operation from day one, as everyone in the intelligence community knows. Trump is terrified of the Israelis after the killed Charlie Kirk.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:04 pm to stuntman
quote:
Republicans run on limiting the size and scope of the federal government
Not any more.
Not since MAGA took it over.
Now they run on tariffs and selective tax bribes. Just like the Democratic Party did when I was growing up in the 70s.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:09 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
This is kind of making the point, TenWheels. If new laws were needed to seal up the border, why did Republicans have to throw all kinds of other crazy spending or whatever else into a bill?
Massie isn't the villain here. Most Republicans are.
Let me ask it like this; If you could have a Republican party filled to the gills w/ Thomas Massies or w/ Mike Johnsons, which do you think would be better for the country?
Massie isn't the villain here. Most Republicans are.
Let me ask it like this; If you could have a Republican party filled to the gills w/ Thomas Massies or w/ Mike Johnsons, which do you think would be better for the country?
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:11 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
Having different priorities for conservative values than another conservative based on the situation doesn't make you a better or worse conservative.
quote:
A cart being pulled in opposite directions goes nowhere. It makes more sense for the people to decide the direction and then have everyone work towards that goal even if you don't fully agree.
MAGA often wants to pull the cart in the direction of the left.
So, no. It doesn't make any sense at all to do that.
And MAGA is not, "Different priorities for conservative values."
It doesn't follow any value system at all except "Us vs Them."
The single most fundamental foundational conservative value and philosophy IMO is that the government is the most dangerous entity in your life and therefore it needs to be watched and checked if it starts to grow beyond certain minimal functions. That's why we have a Bill of Rights. It's why actual conservatives care about the Constitution and are universally constitutionalists.
MAGA loves big government. LOVES it. Couldn't care less about the Constitution.
There's not nearly as much overlap and common ground as you suppose.
Posted on 9/21/26 at 10:13 pm to RohanGonzales
quote:
accomplish anything
Like what, exactly?
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:13 am to DeBoar
quote:
Libertarian is unelectable
Because they do not believe in buying votes through the public coffers.
If libertarians hate Repubs so much, why are there so many anti-libertarian threads here? I never see an anti-GOP thread, started by a libertarian.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 12:16 am to RohanGonzales
quote:
than accomplish anything
What exactly would you like accomplished?
Posted on 9/22/26 at 1:35 am to wackatimesthree
You say this:
And you follow it with this:
You do realize that just a different "Us vs Them" right?
quote:
It doesn't follow any value system at all except "Us vs Them."
And you follow it with this:
quote:
It's why actual conservatives care about the Constitution and are universally constitutionalists
You do realize that just a different "Us vs Them" right?
Posted on 9/22/26 at 6:58 am to DeBoar
quote:Here is one reason ...
Will never understand why libertarians get mad at republicans
Posted on 9/22/26 at 7:29 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
MAGA doesn't follow any value system at all except "Us vs Them."
This is such a great point. 90% of my time here is spent arguing over principles...
"It's wrong for any president and his family to wallow in foreign cash."
"What about Hunter Biden, you never said anything about him!!!!"
"Of course, I did. That's the point. It's wrong for the family of ANY president to take boatloads of foreign money."
"You have TDS! You voted for Kamala!"
Posted on 9/22/26 at 7:35 am to DeBoar
I'm to the point that, IMHO, Trump wants the whole country purple.
Hell, the whole world.
Hell, the whole world.
Posted on 9/22/26 at 8:05 am to wackatimesthree
quote:That is a massive oversimplification, but it certainly is the press narrative. When one hears something like that over and over and over again, there is a tendency to equate it, at least, as partially true.
MAGA .. doesn't follow any value system at all except "Us vs Them."
For example, when you say "Us vs Them," are you taking into account things such as:
• Trump tax policy
• Regulation reduction
• Border control
• Real household income being up 1% over the past 18mos
• The markets up ~45% (inflation adjusted) during the same period
• Violent crime now at its lowest rate since 1968
• Housing more affordable than at any point in the 3 1/2 decades between 1972 and 2007.
• Housing currently more affordable than at any point during the Biden Administration
• Trump's efforts to rebuild American manufacturing are working? That manufacturing productivity rose 2.4% and unit labor costs fell 0.3%?
etc.?
This post was edited on 9/22/26 at 8:08 am
Posted on 9/22/26 at 8:31 am to DMAN1968
Posted on 9/22/26 at 9:15 am to DMAN1968
quote:
You do realize that just a different "Us vs Them" right?
"Us vs Them" doesn't mean that some people agree with me and other people don't. That's not what I mean by that.
In the context of populism, "Us & Them" means that you're not advocating for any particular policies, you're only opposing other groups.
Why it matters is that a conservative will hold the same opinion on a policy regardless of who is proposing it. A MAGA populist will not. The same thing they would broil Biden alive for, they will cheer Trump for doing. Very few policies rise above that treatment from MAGA.
To the conservative, the important thing is the policy and whether or not it advances underlying values and conservative principles. And they will hold to that position even if it isn't the most convenient policy for themselves personally in any given application, in the interest of promoting the overall value.
To the MAGA populist the policy is not important at all, only who is proposing it. And they will NEVER promote a policy if it is inconvenient for them personally.
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