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re: Why did the Union not allow the Confederacy to secede without a war?
Posted on 5/17/26 at 9:49 am to TulsaSooner78
Posted on 5/17/26 at 9:49 am to TulsaSooner78
Tax base!! The confederacy was thriving economically.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 9:50 am to TulsaSooner78
quote:
Slavery had been abolished in England in 1772, and across most of their empire by 1843.
Somerset v Stewart in 1772 was just about relocating slaves.
1833 was when it was abolished, only 32 years before us.
In British colonies it lasted as legal into the early 1900s.
But that was black Muslims owning black people so... no one cares.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 9:51 am to TulsaSooner78
I think that the territories to the west were a bigger issue then what is discussed.The experience in Kansas in the 1850s probably loomed larger than is typically mentioned. There was lots of violence between pro slavery Southern sympathizers mostly from Missouri and settlers comprised of people moving west from the mid Atlantic, New England and recently arrived Irish and Germans.Neither side in that instance was going to just peacefully let the other side gain real advantage through peaceful politics.
Cotton was not the King that many thought. Cotton was quickly becoming like a late era Byzantine Emperor ruling over a shrinking empire.
Cotton was not the King that many thought. Cotton was quickly becoming like a late era Byzantine Emperor ruling over a shrinking empire.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 9:56 am to TulsaSooner78
The long article posted in this thread and the one we had just recently makes a strong case that the United States could never afford the economic damage that would be inflicted on the USA if the Southern Confederate States of America was allowed to continue to exist.
Armed invasion and destruction of the Confederate States of America was the only course of action that could save the United States of America from severe economic harm.
This might be the answer to your question regarding why the Union did not allow the Confederacy to secede without a war.
I don't know whether any contemporary historical original source documents support this theory. I don't know of any.
But there were many in the South who went to war mostly to preserve the Southern economic model, which included Slavery.
Armed invasion and destruction of the Confederate States of America was the only course of action that could save the United States of America from severe economic harm.
This might be the answer to your question regarding why the Union did not allow the Confederacy to secede without a war.
I don't know whether any contemporary historical original source documents support this theory. I don't know of any.
But there were many in the South who went to war mostly to preserve the Southern economic model, which included Slavery.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 9:59 am to TulsaSooner78
quote:
Why did the Union not allow the Confederacy to secede without a war?
Because the Union cared so very much about the poor slaves.
OK, ok, we can stop laughing now.
Everybody knows it was about the money.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:00 am to TulsaSooner78
My analogy.
Did you see the movie War of the Roses?
Well the movie was really about the long build up to the climax, death/succession. A build up of incredible anger and violence.
The war was decades in the making and not a simple one word answer for its fnal starting point. It was not a scientific debate or a sporting competition but the worst kind of feud. A family going at each other. When one day slavery from the South came not just knocking on doors but busting them down. The Fugitive Slave Act. Upheld by a SCOTUS of mainly Southern justices. Allowing slavers to hunt and enter almost at will States of the North to capture anyone they deemed escaped property with little recourse. One of the most anti States rights ruling in US history. Bloody Kansas. Uncle Tom's Cabin. The most read book for fifty years next to the Bible. Patriotism. Greed. Lively hood. Fear. Some in the North and South wanted nothing to do with succession but like in the movie reason lost to madness.
Did you see the movie War of the Roses?
Well the movie was really about the long build up to the climax, death/succession. A build up of incredible anger and violence.
The war was decades in the making and not a simple one word answer for its fnal starting point. It was not a scientific debate or a sporting competition but the worst kind of feud. A family going at each other. When one day slavery from the South came not just knocking on doors but busting them down. The Fugitive Slave Act. Upheld by a SCOTUS of mainly Southern justices. Allowing slavers to hunt and enter almost at will States of the North to capture anyone they deemed escaped property with little recourse. One of the most anti States rights ruling in US history. Bloody Kansas. Uncle Tom's Cabin. The most read book for fifty years next to the Bible. Patriotism. Greed. Lively hood. Fear. Some in the North and South wanted nothing to do with succession but like in the movie reason lost to madness.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:05 am to TulsaSooner78
what we need is an ARCHIVE board with tabs of every subject and topic that has been discussed ad infinitum and all new threads will be WHACKED if the OP has not looked there first.
for the millionth time
in 1864, CSA SOS judah benjamin told the north they would give up slavery if the north would let them SECEDE. lincoln said no.
all lincoln gave two shits about was preserving the union. read his words about it and what he really wanted to do with slaves.
they won't dare teach that in high school.
and no secession was not just about slavery. it was for many reasons.
for the millionth time
in 1864, CSA SOS judah benjamin told the north they would give up slavery if the north would let them SECEDE. lincoln said no.
all lincoln gave two shits about was preserving the union. read his words about it and what he really wanted to do with slaves.
they won't dare teach that in high school.
and no secession was not just about slavery. it was for many reasons.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:08 am to TrueTiger
The best argument I’ve ever read about succession was a guy saying that most southern states would have never joined the Union in the first place if they were going to be held to “an unbreakable union that they could never exit.” He backed it up with numerous statements by representatives of states that were debating on whether or not to join the Union if it meant that they could never leave the Union despite being abused by the federal government.
He likened it to a women entering into “an unbreakable marriage” where the woman could never, ever leave the marriage despite continual abuse and mistreatment by her abusive spouse.
He likened it to a women entering into “an unbreakable marriage” where the woman could never, ever leave the marriage despite continual abuse and mistreatment by her abusive spouse.
This post was edited on 5/17/26 at 10:11 am
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:12 am to rob0710
quote:
Money/resources and power like all other wars.
To add a reference:
According to Lyon G Tyler, A Confederate Catechism (Athens, Ga: 1935) page 6
The export value of Cotton Alone in 1859 was $161,434,923. That same year, the total value of all exports from the North stood at only $78,217, 202.
IOW, the value of one export from the South was worth more than the entire Northern exports. This is why Lincoln didn't wan to end slavery, but also why he knew he couldn't let them go in peace.
Slavery was also profitable to bankers, textile mills, and blacksmiths in Northern factories.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:15 am to TulsaSooner78
Lincoln was an a-hole.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:16 am to Cuz413
And yet...they still fought to the death.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:22 am to Fat Bastard
By 1864, that offer was irrelevant. The South was having its arse kicked and after Antietam, Gettysburg, Vicksburg and Chattanooga, the North was not even going to listen to anything other than, " We Surrender"
Benjamin should have saved on the paper that the "offer" was written on by not writing it.
Benjamin should have saved on the paper that the "offer" was written on by not writing it.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:25 am to KiwiHead
quote:
By 1864, that offer was irrelevant. The South was having its arse kicked and after Antietam, Gettysburg, Vicksburg and Chattanooga, the North was not even going to listen to anything other than, " We Surrender"
100%
It was purely a talking point.
Its like Hitler agreeing to give up Poland in late 1944.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:47 am to TulsaSooner78
The firing on Ft Sumter gave the Union the excuse to invade the South. Before then, northern sentiment seemed to be let them go.
Succession was a terrible, reactionary idea.
Succession was a terrible, reactionary idea.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 10:58 am to Champagne
quote:
If those secessionist violent activities had never happened, we can't know for sure, but, probably POTUS Lincoln would have called up troops to invade the South, just like he did in response to the violence.
It would've been the better strategic move to make Lincoln the aggressor. It might've been just the change needed for Britain and/or France willing to jump in at some point.
This post was edited on 5/17/26 at 10:59 am
Posted on 5/17/26 at 11:04 am to Champagne
quote:
If those secessionist violent activities had never happened, we can't know for sure, but, probably POTUS Lincoln would have called up troops to invade the South, just like he did in response to the violence.
The powers that be in the north were never letting the South leave without a fight.
Had nothing to do with Sumter or anywhere else, they just needed pretense and were going to manufacture it if they didn’t get one.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 11:10 am to Champagne
quote:
Armed invasion and destruction of the Confederate States of America was the only course of action that could save the United States of America from severe economic harm.
"the only course of action that could save Northern industry from severe economic harm."
The tariffs had already thrown the South into a decade long economic depression while the North experienced an economic boom. That was the big breaking point of the brotherhood that united the states into the United States.
Posted on 5/17/26 at 11:12 am to Champagne
The North started the War, a Blockade is an act of war, they blockaded Charleston South Car.
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