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re: What Would Biden/Dems Do Different Than Trump In Handling Chinavirus
Posted on 7/27/20 at 4:02 pm to longwayfromLA
Posted on 7/27/20 at 4:02 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:But that was the context of the thread!
I want to be clear. I'm not claiming that democrats are better at this
quote:Well, youre wrong as there is nothing in the country's modern history to compare. Relatively small countries like Germany are not a good comparison to a huge and vastly more populated fsuccessfully. With that said, we still have fewer deaths than 6 other European nations that are much smaller and more manageable. It's obvious you do not truly appreciate the size of this issue and the limits to what a government can do successfully.
. I'm saying this particular administration has been uniquely disjointed, dysfunctional, backward looking, and ineffectual and that has earned us uniquely bad outcomes
1
Posted on 7/27/20 at 4:19 pm to GusAU
Quick two items:
LINK
#1 Follow his own WH/CDC guidance for starter's. Issued on Thurs 16 April; started tweeting/pressuring states to open that weekend. What happened to:
1. Downward trajectory of influenza-like illnesses (ILI) reported within a 14-day period AND Downward trajectory of covid-like syndromic cases reported within a 14-day period
2.Downward trajectory of documented cases within a 14-day period OR downward trajectory of positive tests as a percent of total tests within a 14-day period (flat or increasing volume of tests)
3. HOSPITALS - Treat all patients without crisis care AND robust testing program in place for at-risk healthcare workers, including emerging antibody testing
State like FL, GA, TX, SC and many others rushed to open, and now look at their cases and how it has impacted their families and economies.
#2 Early on it was a hoax, it was going to disappear when the weather got warm, we have 15 cases now and next week we'll have none, etc. etc.. Finally, last week (3d week of July), we have the call directly from the POTUS to wear face-coverings, 'we're in this together'. So much for early-on impactful leadership from the FRONT, and leadership by EXAMPLE.
LINK
#1 Follow his own WH/CDC guidance for starter's. Issued on Thurs 16 April; started tweeting/pressuring states to open that weekend. What happened to:
1. Downward trajectory of influenza-like illnesses (ILI) reported within a 14-day period AND Downward trajectory of covid-like syndromic cases reported within a 14-day period
2.Downward trajectory of documented cases within a 14-day period OR downward trajectory of positive tests as a percent of total tests within a 14-day period (flat or increasing volume of tests)
3. HOSPITALS - Treat all patients without crisis care AND robust testing program in place for at-risk healthcare workers, including emerging antibody testing
State like FL, GA, TX, SC and many others rushed to open, and now look at their cases and how it has impacted their families and economies.
#2 Early on it was a hoax, it was going to disappear when the weather got warm, we have 15 cases now and next week we'll have none, etc. etc.. Finally, last week (3d week of July), we have the call directly from the POTUS to wear face-coverings, 'we're in this together'. So much for early-on impactful leadership from the FRONT, and leadership by EXAMPLE.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 4:25 pm to Jake88
quote:
But that was the context of the thread!
Right. but it's not that they're better because they're Democrats. Go back to my very first answer. I was clear, pretty much any other administration would have handled this differently.
quote:
Relatively small countries like Germany are not a good comparison to a huge and vastly more populated fsuccessfully.
Germany is not small. US is about 4 times bigger than Germany and has experienced about 16 times more COVID deaths and rising.
quote:
With that said, we still have fewer deaths than 6 other European nations that are much smaller and more manageable. .
I can only assume you mean per capita rather than in total. My chief concern has continually been that our challenges with COVID continue even as Western Europe and the rich countries in Asia have theirs more or less under control. Which of those six countries have a higher per capita death toll than we have over the last week or month? How many deaths in Western Europe total across all of those countries and all of those people as compared to Florida this week? We're doing something wrong.
quote:
It's obvious you do not truly appreciate the size of this issue and the limits to what a government can do successfully.
If you believe that our government is uniquely doomed to be ineffectual against this disease. I guess I just disagree with you. I think we could have done just as well if not better than everywhere else had we followed our own Playbook which the rest of the world leveraged to success.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 4:30 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
I can only assume you mean per capita rather than in total. My chief concern has continually been that our challenges with COVID continue even as Western Europe and the rich countries in Asia have theirs more or less under control. Which of those six countries have a higher per capita death toll than we have over the last week or month? How many deaths in Western Europe total across all of those countries and all of those people as compared to Florida this week? We're doing something wrong.
Something like 75% of all recent deaths/cases have come from 5 sunbelt and western states.
You keep on viewing this as a national outbreak. But right now it is anything but. The northeast is doing as well as Europe right now, as are some Midwest states
California, Texas, Arizona, and Florida finally got their first wave.
What in your view did these governors do wrong? The data coming out of these states in May justified a reopening imo.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 4:34 pm to longwayfromLA
60 Million Americans Got Swine Flu, Obama and Biden Stopped Testing
Posted on 7/27/20 at 8:50 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
Why are you even on this thread? I mean, the question was addressed to Dems. He asked a question, I gave an answer. You are free to disagree. You don't have to get sand in your vagina about it. I disagree with people on here all the time. It's not that big a deal.
Longway - he's obviously a "special" person, or 13 years old, possibly both. So let him play and we'll hope he doesn't hurt himself.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 8:53 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
You know who disagrees with your feelings about the masks?
Science.
No it doesn't. Science doesn't disagree with me. All agree about the effectiveness of masks, the only study that questions it's effectiveness is if the masks are worn incorrectly. Show me the science being everywhere about the effectiveness of masks. To deny7 the effectiveness of masks totally brings into question about the rest of your argument. As far as mandating masks, I agree. Americans can be selfish and childish about something that can slightly inconvenience themselves, but if we can advocate a no shirts no shoes policy we can certainly advocate a no masks policy. Basically, show me where the science is all over the place, put up or shut up!
quote:
Trump bought us extra weeks by hanging a travel ban.
He told the CDC to get testing and tracing ready
Trump may have bought us extra weeks, if he had advocated it earlier, but he only did it after the airlines had already did it. Plus he didn't put any restrictions on European Travel. New York was hit hard from Europe, which Trump did little to limit or control.
Your praise of Trump handling of PPE is odd since it provides little specifics just platitudes. But if you just google Trump and PPE, Trump does not come out very well.
LINK LINK LINK
I just chose those 3 countries because though I know have laws than the Uhnited States, I felt that New Zealand and Germany being western democratic countries to be similar enough for the United States to emulate.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 8:56 pm to Niccolo Machiavelli
quote:
Why weren’t they replenishing the PPE as they used it?
That's an excellent question that I blame the Obama administration for failing to do, but Trump administration was warned of the shortage and had 3 years to replenish supplies.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 9:19 pm to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Damn man, you do realize that the China virus was a medical hurricane do you not? No president or man could have prevented the inevitable. When there is no vaccine or no cure for an unknown just what in the hell can you expect? Trump didn't send infected old people back into nursing homes that eventually morphed into a 40% death rate nationwide. Your Dem governors did that my friend.
Since you seem to be full of critique for Trump, exactly what would you have done to lessen the blow of the virus?
First, I'm hardly a Dem. I'm probably more conservative than you are. In fact, I'd bet my house on that - wanna know why? Because there's nothing "conservative" about bowing to Democrat/media pressure and buying into their hype.
quote:
No president or man could have prevented the inevitable.
Exactly. And this is why I argue Trump shite the COVID bed. He fell in line and played the bullshite game that continues today.
quote:
Since you seem to be full of critique for Trump, exactly what would you have done to lessen the blow of the virus?
Ever think maybe the time to do something that SUBSTANTIALLY lessens the blow of a virus like COVID is years and years before it arrives, and all the arm-waving and shutting down of gyms and churches today won't, in the end, do frick all positive?
What would I have done?
1. Focus resources on isolating the elderly, prioritizing those already compromised by serious medical issues. We've spent, what, $5 trillion or something on this shitshow? That means we could have spent $500,000 on each of the 10 million American most at risk of the virus, which is a stupid amount.
2. I would have shut Fauci the hell up. That's not Monday morning quarterbacking, there were a lot of people who knew a little about this fricker's background that recognized him as a snake in the grass all along.
3. While the Left tried to kill me in the press about COVID, I would have done some obvious things - like had some really smart, credible experts forecast the costs in human terms of shutdowns, school closures, etc. This is a humongous part of (what should have been) the COVID conversation that has never even gotten off the ground. Trump alluded to this generally a few times "we have to make sure the cure isn't worse than the disease" but he never did anything about it, and there's a lot of real science out there that indicates his intuition was spot on.
4. I would not have signed off on PPP, COVID dividend checks or amped up unemployment benefits at the overly generous levels that were done. In other words, I wouldn't have protected governors/mayors from themselves.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:22 pm to David_DJS
quote:
David_DJS
Ok, look...I'm willing to call a truce. I got annoyed when you misunderstood the intent of my post and tried to tell me that I didn't know what I was even asking. That is obviously not true, but I will chalk it up to you misunderstanding. I will apologize for the name calling....which I admit is a bad reflex I have.
quote:I know this was not a response to me, I just quoted it because I never thought you were a Dem, but I did think you were one of the Repubs that was going to vote for Biden because of how unhappy you were with Trump's handling of the virus. I actually know some that tell me that. When I ask them what Biden would have done better, they avoid answering the question. That drives me nuts.
First, I'm hardly a Dem.
I have no problem with anyone criticizing Trump's handling of the virus (even though I believe he's handled it better than given credit for), but I have a problem with people that HONESTLY think Biden would have handled it better.
I now know you are not one of them.
As far as the rest of your post, I'm not going to quote it and address each question, because I probably agree with 90-95% of all of it. I'm not so sure how realistic #1 could have been pulled off in advance, but do agree that it would have been good if truly possible. I pretty much agree with the rest.
To longway and Tyrus, I totally disagree with your points of view, but do agree that I shouldn't attack y'all (I am from Alabama) for answering my questions. One thing that pisses me off to no end is the loss of freedom of speech without being attacked. I was doing the very thing I detest. Therefore, I apologize to you both.
That said, I still think you two are nuts....
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:40 pm to GusAU
Maybe we wouldn’t be dealing with it at all??
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:41 pm to GusAU
Likely would have pushed hard for hydroxychloroquine to be used.
But the media would have praised the decision.
But the media would have praised the decision.
This post was edited on 7/27/20 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:45 pm to tiger91
quote:
Maybe we wouldn’t be dealing with it at all??
I agree. My opinion is that we absolutely wouldn't be. And that is sadly scary.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:47 pm to Pelican fan99
quote:
It’s not what they would do it’s what the media wouldn’t do. The media would down play the virus the entire time and tell us just to go about our lives and that would be that
Exactly. Hell, we saw a test run of that with all the articles from early January downplaying the virus.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:49 pm to Tyrusrex
There has never been a shortage of PPE, ventilators, or beds. Get your facts straight.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:49 pm to GusAU
Told the truth about it or even downplay it the way they they do for China.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:50 pm to Tyrusrex
And after reading your number 4 argument, it’s laughable. Not sure how you made it this far in life.
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:53 pm to Tyrusrex
You do realize that you’re posting leftist propaganda and not facts for your links? Those articles are proven lies. You can get this info live or from live clips so it’s puzzling that you’d rely on known misinformation sources instead.
This post was edited on 7/27/20 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:53 pm to The Eric
quote:
Likely would have pushed hard for hydroxychloroquine to be used.
But the media would have praised the decision.
That right there pisses me off the most about all of that. I truly think that many of the deaths could have been avoided. I also believe the small percentage of people that had a really bad experience with it, yet survived, could have been spared the severity of their experience.
But nooooooooooo, the Dems (who claim Trump has made this virus political) and the MSM have totally fought it's use just because Trump suggested it.
My PCP (he is from Mexico FWIW), who I've been seeing since 2009 told me the other day that he has had 5 of his patients test positive for the virus. He prescribed hydroxychloroquine for all 5 and all recovered. The shortest time was 4 days, the longest time was 11 days. None of them were more miserable than the normal flu. I know that is not a big enough sample for proof, but I'm hearing/reading the same story from lots of other people
Posted on 7/27/20 at 10:55 pm to GusAU
And you know if Biden wins they’re gonna repackage and rebrand hydroxy then get behind it and push it 100%.
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