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re: What are your reasons for believing climate change is "a hoax"

Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:39 am to
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173660 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:39 am to
quote:

Why would disagreeing with a statement, or believing or dis-believing a statement, make you a subscriber to a conspiracy theory?


It doesn't necessarily

But the belief is largely formed out of conspiracy


Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
34512 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:41 am to
quote:

What on fricking Earth does my question have to do with the "Scientific Method"?



You're right. It's not really the "Scientific Method". It's the "Scientific Process". There IS a difference.

But here's the answer you were fishing for. The days of Samuel Morton and his American Golgotha study are generally over in science. I hate to tell you but statistics are a mother. You can't get around math and statistics. Maybe the reason there isn't a lot of science supporting (And I HATE using this term, but I am almost forced to in this case) "climate deniers" is that there is scant evidence supporting those case. Most researchers today post their entire data sets so if you make an error, it's bound to be caught by those that are smarter and sharper than you are. (And I've found that there's always someone smarter than "you").

I know tons and tons of scientists. I work with them EVERY day. And I hate to break it to you, but 99+% of them don't really have a political agenda when it comes to their research. That's because ultimately their reputations are on the line. Looks at what happened to Fleischmann and Pons after their "cold fusion" experiment was proved to be a hoax. They both were basically run out of science. Look what happened to Wakefield after his MMR and Autism study was found to be fraudulent. This is why scientists generally don't fabricate data.

Now (and here's the part you were fishing for) none of this is to say that scientists don't have a political agenda AFTER their research is generated, but that's a totally different argument.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 11:46 am
Posted by Klark Kent
Houston via BR
Member since Jan 2008
74858 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:41 am to
ExxonMobil

One word. No e on the end.
Jesus Christ
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173660 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:42 am to
Let's just use the stock ticker

XOM used propaganda to convince people that climate change wasn't real. Now even XOM is on records as saying it is. Yet people still believe that it isn't real. Is XOM now in on the conspiracy too?
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:44 am to
quote:

The answer is you don't really understand how the scientific method works


Haha, whatever dude. This is why people are so skeptical of you "scientists". You can't stay inside your lane, and assume that the rest of us are too dumb to realize it.

What level of arrogance is required for you to think we'd even entertain the idea that "science" is immune from the principles of economics / incentives for human action?

"Trust us guys, this is SCIENCE, totally immune from the moral hazards and perverse incentives of other areas of human behavior"



It's laughable really, especially with all of the examples of perverse incentives in the world of scientific study.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 11:48 am
Posted by Klark Kent
Houston via BR
Member since Jan 2008
74858 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:47 am to
I’m not arguing on whether we should believe in climate change based on a ExxonMobil report. I’m simply stating that if you can’t come close to spelling a companies name, you shouldnt either
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 11:48 am
Posted by TejasHorn
High Plains Driftin'
Member since Mar 2007
11619 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:47 am to
Everything is a conspiracy. Climate change, in particular, is a vast and deep one to put us all under one world rule. Everyone from the local college science teacher to Bill Gates is in on this!
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:49 am to
quote:

Oh please. I know the fricking scientific method. Given that you've already professed ignorance of the subject, perhaps you should sit this one out.



Nobody wants to tackle this question, because they know that the money trail doesn't look great.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
34512 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:49 am to
quote:

quote:
The answer is you don't really understand how the scientific method works


Haha, whatever dude


I mis-typed and you called me on it. I corrected it in a previous post.

It not the "Scientific Method". That's a process for proving or disproving hypothesis. I think most folks are familiar with that process.

What I should have said in that original post was "Scientific Process" which is scientists and researchers obtaining funds to continue doing research.

All I was trying to say with the underlined section was trying to pull back the curtain and get to the motivation that drives many in the field. Yes, there is an underlying curiosity that drives many scientists, but after a while there's more to it than that.

Contrary to what was implied by the post I responded to, politics aren't really what drives the process. It's $$.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 11:59 am
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299586 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:51 am to
quote:

Everything is a conspiracy.


Yep, even the Russians" bullshite

People believe what they want to believe. Any semblance of authority has been stripped of credibility
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
102715 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:54 am to
I think the human impact is exaggerated by people with a political agenda. Many of the researchers' funding comes from government, and certain politicians want a particular result from said research in order to push their agenda. So many scientists will comply in order to receive funding.

I do not disagree that we have a negative impact on certain climate patterns, and in some cases can cause short term natural disasters as the earth corrects and repairs itself. This is the price we accept in order to live comfortably in a developed world.

I do not think the doomsday scenarios are true, and even if something of that nature happens like say a new ice age it will largely be due to factors that humans do not control.
Posted by Havoc
Member since Nov 2015
39266 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:56 am to
We now see the enviro rhetoric brought to its extremes as some scientists claim to be able to attribute elements of climate change to specific "carbon producers," that is, the carbon load traceable to the fossil fuels produced by companies annually from 1864 to 2010.
Posted by ChEgrad
Member since Nov 2012
3877 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:57 am to
quote:

Obviously this is terrible and data like this should be completely discarded. And I have no problem with entities making these claims to be audited to make sure that falsified data is completely thrown out.


The problem is that many times the original data was discarded and cannot be recovered. Now there is no actual original historical data to be analyzed in this case. This is the real evidence that a hoax is happening - knowing and wanton destruction of the real data.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
34512 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:58 am to
quote:

I think the human impact is exaggerated by people with a political agenda. Many of the researchers' funding comes from government, and certain politicians want a particular result from said research in order to push their agenda. So many scientists will comply in order to receive funding.


I think you're partially right.

I think the scientist support parties (the left) that will continue to fund them. That is inherently in their best interest, and folks generally do things that are in their best interest(s). But I think they are forced to do this because the right is generally opposed to public funding of science.

However, I do not think that their results are influenced by their politics for reasons stated earlier. There are, of course, exceptions on both sides and they should be exposed.

Just my opinion of course.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:00 pm
Posted by Boulderaggie
Member since Jan 2018
82 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 11:58 am to
Funny how they call people who don't buy into the narrative "Climate Change Deniers". Makes me wonder why they aren't called "Climate Change Believers".
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 11:59 am
Posted by winkchance
St. George, LA
Member since Jul 2016
6653 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:05 pm to
By whom?
Posted by Enadious
formerly B5Lurker City of Central
Member since Aug 2004
18636 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

XOM used propaganda to convince people that climate change wasn't real. Now even XOM is on records as saying it is.


Have you considered that XOM changed its position based upon politics/image of company rather than pure science? Because I'm here to tell you, the truth doesn't matter. XOM will take the position that makes the most money for the company. The 'science' being true or not doesn't matter.

Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173660 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:06 pm to
quote:



Nobody wants to tackle this question, because they know that the money trail doesn't look great.


Right

It leads back to ExxonMobil and Koch industries
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:07 pm to
quote:


This is where you have it wrong. People are paid to study something. They aren't paid to come up with a conclusion. The conclusion is what it is.


That you are going to pretend that you think this is what I meant demonstrates your level of hackery.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63332 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

Liberalism
---------
Has nothing to do with science
quote:

Right wingers happen to be wrong about climate change
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:07 pm
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