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re: What are your reasons for believing climate change is "a hoax"

Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:07 pm to
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173678 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:07 pm to
quote:



Have you considered that XOM changed its position based upon politics/image of company rather than pure science? Because I'm here to tell you, the truth doesn't matter. XOM will take the position that makes the most money for the company. The 'science' being true or not doesn't matter.

And their original "denier" stance was likely driven by money and nothing else.

Now people still cling to that stance. That's a little disturbing.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299628 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

The 'science' being true or not doesn't matter.


Truth.

Again, all of our institutions are being stripped of credibility.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63332 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

It's nothing more than a research gravy train at the moment with scientists taking advantage of the ignorance of the general population and politicians to the fields of stochastic modeling, statistical inference, and non-linear partial differential equation solving.
Yup.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63332 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

I know a lot of it has to do with political and confirmation bias
Ya sure. No one on the left does this. Ever. What's hilarious is your "observation" of confirmation bias is an good example of... wait for it... confirmation bias.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:12 pm
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173678 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Ya sure. No one on the left does this. Ever.

Of course they do

But that is not a logical reason for YOU to think that climate change is a hoax
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:12 pm to
quote:



It's an educated guess

You're logical enough to where it's the only explanation


Nope.

You're just basically taking the liberal approach.

"I evaluated the info and came to conclusion X........anyone who evaluates the same info and doesn't conclude X isn't honestly evaluating the info".

quote:


Again let's review the genetically modified food thing. The vast majority of science on the matter concludes it's perfectly safe to eat.

K

quote:

If I determined from these conclusions that it's safe for me to eat GMO food would you be throwing rocks at me?

Nope

quote:

Would you be making fun of me saying I didn't come up with the conclusions on my own and am just following what smart people said?

Only if you claimed that it meant YOUR opinion was more valid because of it. YOUR opinion on the matter is no better than the burger flipper's.

But, let's take this one further.

If, for whatever reason, govt started freezing out funding of researchers who posited that there were issues with GMOs......or, freezing out research into potential concerns with GMOs.........while simultaneously funding in the billions to any and all researchers who already have a body of work demonstrating they are in line with current thinking on GMOs, would you not recognize this as problematic?

What if you learned that this in fact had been happening for the last 20 years? Would this affect how you evaluated what you'd read on GMOs?

If not, why not?
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63332 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

If I studied climate science and got my PhD from a top school in the nation......then, 5 years later, said, "I hypothesize that predictions about Global Warming are incorrect based on XYZ.........I want to study to see if XYZ is right".

What are the odds of me receiving funding from ANY source other than an obviously agenda driven source to check on my hypothesis?
There actual examlpes here...
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:13 pm to
quote:


Right

It leads back to ExxonMobil and Koch industries


WUT?

Now you're just embarrassing yourself.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173678 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

Only if you claimed that it meant YOUR opinion was more valid because of it. YOUR opinion on the matter is no better than the burger flipper's.

So an opinion based on facts is less sound than an opinion based on the opposite of those facts? Help me out here. Try to do it with a little brevity.
Posted by Havoc
Member since Nov 2015
39266 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

XOM used propaganda to convince people that climate change wasn't real.

Is that true?
quote:

Now even XOM is on records as saying it is.

Well, for over ten years it has acknowledged the risks of it. So "now" isn't accurate.
Posted by TheMonTSteR
Member since Aug 2007
357 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:14 pm to
Being a anthropogenic global warming/cooling skeptic doesn't necessitate being a conspiracy theorist.

Climate change itself is real, of course, and pre-dates industrial humanity by billions of years. The forces at work are far more powerful and ancient than humanity could ever hope to be, and despite the fervent pronunciations of scientific certitude from the left, those forces are still not fully understood.

And don't forget the fairly recent leak of emails and data from the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit, which demonstrated irrefutably that the infamous "hockey stick" graph correlating CO2 emissions and a rise in global temperature (and part of the "settled science" we hear so much about) was fudged in an effort to influence both public opinion and policy.

A couple of videos from climate change skeptics with scientific credentials:

MIT atmospheric physicist: LINK
Princeton physicist: LINK
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63332 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

I believe that pollution is very bad for the environment. The fact that smog hovering over out cities has been cleaned up for the most part is a very good thing.
Ironically, cleaning smog (particulates and aerosols) contributes to warming.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173678 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:15 pm to
quote:

WUT?

Now you're just embarrassing yourself


Wait you didn't know this?

LINK

quote:

Another key finding: From 2003 to 2007, Koch Affiliated Foundations and the ExxonMobil Foundation were "heavily involved" in funding climate change denial efforts. But Exxon hasn't made a publically traceable contribution since 2008, and Koch's efforts dramatically declined, Brulle said.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299628 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

Well, for over ten years it has acknowledged the risks of it. So "now" isn't accurate.


Correct
Posted by bstew3006
318
Member since Dec 2007
13049 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:16 pm to
I do believe the Climate is Changing. The earth's climate has been "changing" for 4.5 billions years. This is a fact. The Climate has Dramatically cooled "ice age" 7-8 times, then Dramatically heated, ending said Ice Age. Just 40 years ago, it was a scientific fact that we were headed into the next Ice Age...what happened? Now the earth is heating, sea levels rising...All because of MAN!! When You and "Scientist/Politicians" change the argument from Man Made Global Warming to Climate Change, I see a problem. Then when I call BS on your "climate change" argument...I get called a Flat Earther, science denier. When I'm not denying Climate Change, I'm calling out your "Cause" of the change.

The "97% of Scientist agree on Man Made Climate change" is thrown around a lot! One very important fact, the "97%" isn't made up of Climatologist. When in Fact, 97% of scientist do agree that man has an IMIPACT on the Climate. I and damn near every reasonable person would agree! However, a Large number of the 97% , which actually are Climatologist, go on to say in their findings that Mans impact is minute in comparison to Natural Climate change...Not all, but a large number. So NO, not all scientist, climatologist agree. Yet, political hacks and Liberals take it to the extreme and call me and others Deniers! All bc we say PUMP the brakes on Man Made global warming.

I believe Man has an Impact, but side with Climatologist, that it is Minute in the grand scheme. The Earth has had 1000s of heating and cooling cycles, Multiple ICE ages...which would put me 30ft under Ice, right now, caused by Natural change. Yet, I am supposed to fall in line and just say "YES" I am the cause of any change, bad storms and hate on Farting cows, big bad Oil companies. Sorry I'm not sorry and don't fall in line. But by my REASONABLE view, You say "I'm
subscribing to a Conspiracy Theory"... you should look in the mirror.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:18 pm
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

Contrary to what was implied by the post I responded to, politics aren't really what drives the process. It's $$.



now I'm totally confused.


politics drives $, and $ drives research, so I think that the distinction between politics and money in this situation is really not that important.

Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299628 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

That's a little disturbing.


Not really, skepticism is necessary on any subject.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173678 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

Yet, political hacks and Liberals take it to the extreme and call me and others Deniers! All bc we say PUMP the brakes on Man Made global warming.

Are you saying pump the brakes on genetically modified food? How can you be sure that it is safe to consume?
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63332 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

Should be a little alarming no?
No. Every major would LOVE a reduction in demand. Helps lower the CAPEX and extend ROI on existing assets.
This post was edited on 3/7/18 at 12:19 pm
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
173678 posts
Posted on 3/7/18 at 12:19 pm to
quote:


Not really, skepticism is necessary on any subject.

Right. Science sort of takes care of that internally.

If the same level of skepticism was applied to the conspiracy theory that would be great!
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