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Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:05 am to L.A.
To be fair to Toddy, May 2012 was before the 2012 election. However, that interview with a robin roberts was thrown together because of Biden’s comments and Obama pivoted straight to the idea that it should be a state’s rights issue. Not a federal one.
He did nothing in support of gay marriage until he had been re-elected.
But I’m going to throw a real hot take out there. The government shouldn’t be involved in marriage at all.
He did nothing in support of gay marriage until he had been re-elected.
But I’m going to throw a real hot take out there. The government shouldn’t be involved in marriage at all.
This post was edited on 1/22/18 at 1:08 am
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:10 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:.
Gays, BEFORE marriage equality, had lower levels of poverty than the average american, higher net worths, higher reported levels of happiness, and political rights. They were second class citizens in terms of marriage rights, but of little else
I understand what you're saying , broad brushing this, doesn't negate the actual reality of things that actually happened. I worked with an older guy right out of college whose "lover" (that was before the term "partner") died, and even though they thought they had protected everything legally, he lost a substantial portion of their wealth because the family got a gay hating redneck judge in bumfrick tennessee to void part of the will and gave part to the guys family (who hadn't seen him in years). A lot of this was based on them not being recognized as a family.
Things started getting better mid 1990's no doubt, but even then looks like the Middle Ages compared to now. Of course things were getting better, but it had to culminate in this or it never would have been truly finished. With everything coming together in almost perfect sequence, gay marriage would have never happened and gays would still be banned from the military to this day (that almost seems unbelievable now but you know it's the truth)
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:13 am to Toddy
Sad. Such depravity should not be accepted, much less encouraged and endorsed.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:16 am to Toddy
quote:
gays would still be banned from the military to this day (that almost seems unbelievable now but you know it's the truth)
Well it is unbelievable. Because the very couple you reference was dating before don’t ask don’t tell was repealed.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:16 am to L.A.
quote:
AFTER he was elected and there was no chance of losing the black vote. Read my earlier post. I said both times he RAN for president
He came out BEFORE his second election in 2012. It would have been INSANE for him to have come out in 2008. The DNC didn't even address gay marriage until 2008 and it wasn't given a plank until 2012 That's how quickly things were changing in those days. I was VERY worried when announced support in May of 2012 because I thought it was too soon. In retrospect, it was the perfect time as it galvanized the SSM referendums in four states that November. We won in all four states, first time gay marriage had ever won at the ballot box. Prop 8 had happened only four years before and losing that devastating and deflating.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:25 am to Golfer
quote:
To be fair to Toddy, May 2012 was before the 2012 election. However, that interview with a robin roberts was thrown together because of Biden’s comments and Obama pivoted straight to the idea that it should be a state’s rights issue. Not a federal one.
Regardless of Biden, it had been planned for him to issue public support prior to the election for his second term in November. His support GREATLY helped the cause in the Maryland, particularly with blacks. I remember seeing polls with huge double digit swings in black approval/disapproval of ssm in Maryland.
My main point is all of this happened at the exact right time. Four state referendums won causing half a dozen others to legalize giving momentum for Circuit court bans being struck down multiple circuits culminating with the SCOTUS. By the time it actually go to there were only a handful of states where the bans were still in effect and had not been struck down. Without those four state referendum wins that November, this all could have ended very differently.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:29 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Sad. Such depravity should not be accepted, much less encouraged and endorsed.
Indeed. You're the exact type Rove and Co. capitalized on and got whipped into a frenzy in 2004. And they did and an outstanding job selling what you believe. Thankfully, though, it's safe to safe your type, while still numerous in places, is a lot smaller group of the population at large.
I think the Internet has helped diminish mind sets like you as well.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:35 am to Toddy
Toddy, you are indeed right that the change in opinion on gay marriage has happened in such a short period of time. From 70% oppose to 60% support in less than 6 years.
Why do you think the same thing hasn't happened with abortion rights? Some surveys indicate support for abortion is actually lower now than it was in the 70s and 80s. Furthermore, even younger generations have a line that can't be crossed on abortion rights, with most opposing it after certain time.
Why has the gay movement been so much more successful in swaying public opinion than the abortion movement?
Why do you think the same thing hasn't happened with abortion rights? Some surveys indicate support for abortion is actually lower now than it was in the 70s and 80s. Furthermore, even younger generations have a line that can't be crossed on abortion rights, with most opposing it after certain time.
Why has the gay movement been so much more successful in swaying public opinion than the abortion movement?
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:44 am to Toddy
quote:
I was in during the repeal of DADT, and I definitely never had a problem with it. One of my best NCOs was gay, and everyone and their mother knew it even before DADT. I mean, honestly, around 2009 or 2010, everyone knew who was gay and who wasn't. It wasn't a big deal even before the repeal, to be honest. What I do have a major problem with is that Daniel is going to be a Major in the very near future while Vincent will be a Captain for a long while. They are also both Apache pilots, and that's a small community. For the record, I also have the same problem with the same scenario taking place in a hetero relationship. That's a balance of power issue that is severely fricked up and detrimental to the health of the service. Unless one or both has already submitted his resignation packet, I think it's a little screwed up and should not be allowed.
Re-posting this so you'll actually respond.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:49 am to Toddy
Here we go again...gays can't just keep to themselves, they have to scream it to the entire world and shove their lifestyle down everyone's throats.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:54 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Why has the gay movement been so much more successful in swaying public opinion than the abortion movement?
you probably already answered it with this...
quote:
Furthermore, even younger generations have a line that can't be crossed on abortion rights, with most opposing it after certain time.
I think most rational people are on board with abortion up to a certain time in the respective pregnancy.
Also what two consenting adults do with their lives and an individual potentially killing a baby right before the due date are two completely different topics
Posted on 1/22/18 at 1:55 am to TrumpThatB
quote:
This is why our military is a laughing stock around the world!! Obummer used the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen as his personal gay laboratory! Disgusting!!
It's terrible, almost as bad as truman desegregating the military in 48
Posted on 1/22/18 at 2:27 am to Toddy
quote:
Toddy
You'll never be accepted as normal.
Deal with it.
This post was edited on 1/22/18 at 2:31 am
Posted on 1/22/18 at 2:34 am to Toddy
quote:
It would have been INSANE for him to have come out in 2008.
Yeah because God forbid we should have honesty from our candidates. They might not get elected if they actually reveal their true agendas.
Posted on 1/22/18 at 2:43 am to Godfather1
quote:
You'll never be accepted as normal.
Deal with it.
He should, as it's been a "normal" part of human behavior for as long as human beings have existed. Gay people are people, first and foremost. There isn't anything integrally different about them from you or me. They hate, love, kill, save, lust, abstain, persevere, and fail as much as any other person.
That doesn't take away from the fact that he has absolutely shite political views because he is blinded by a single issue.
This post was edited on 1/22/18 at 2:45 am
Posted on 1/22/18 at 4:30 am to Toddy
Posted on 1/22/18 at 4:49 am to MoarKilometers
Truman desecrating the military then was bad too. Look at how our boys did in wars right after that. The greatest generation didn't worry about being nice to the blacks and gays... they just went out and killed the enemy!
Posted on 1/22/18 at 4:54 am to TrumpThatB
quote:
This is why our military is a laughing stock around the world!
Who exactly do you think is laughing at our military, little man?
Posted on 1/22/18 at 4:57 am to TrumpThatB
quote:
Truman desecrating the military then was bad too.
You are a hateful, racist little man.
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