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re: Were the founders full of shite?
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:49 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:49 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
It's well deserved by the way.
Sure, but they are worthy of criticism, as well.
quote:
Presentism it's not a great way to consider history.
I disagree that I'm viewing history through presentism. There certainly isn't any more merit in dismissing history because that's more palatable.
1
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:50 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Well, as I said, our founding document, the constitution, was not based on belief. It was a governing document, and a compromise. I'd offer that the founders probably believed strongly in the positions that they held, which drove those compromises. But without the compromises, there may well have been no lasting democracy independent of British rule.
Are you suggesting the founders didn't believe what they wrote?
quote:if that's what you meant to write, I'd agree with your conjecture, with reservation. However, I believe you miswrote that.
That's why justice isn't applied unequally.
quote:
I don't know that I could even define it, but I'm working on it.
"Fairness and Equality" especially in terms of immutable characteristics would have to be a major element. Attempts at egality would not be. Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:51 pm to BuckeyeGoon
quote:
What are you hoping to get from this discussion? What is the ideal solution we could arrive at if everyone agreed with your assertion posted here?
I like reading other perspectives.
quote:
If we all agree and concede that the founders were hypocrites on the slavery issue, then were do we go from there?
I don't expect people to agree with me. I'm not even trying to persuade anyone to agree with me. I'm here for discussion.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:54 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Don't. You are.
I disagree that I'm viewing history through presentism.
For example, how would you have had the founders deal with the existing institution of slavery in the constitution?
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:54 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Yes, I come here so strange men I will never be in the same room with can call me fat, ugly and stupid.Like most humans, I love being insulted by strangers. My goodness, do you come here to get attention from men? Is that the actual motivation for posting here for most people? Why else would you accuse me of that?
Hey, I stuck up for you the last time someone attacked you in that manor.
I don't agree with your insane TDS, but I also don't think grown men should call you those things.
quote:
Just ignore me.
Sure thing
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:56 pm to RohanGonzales
quote:Absolutely. If cubbies needs any help packing/loading boxes, I'll do it for FREE.
Then move
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:57 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
My thinking has certainly been shaped by points others have made here. I'm procrastinating writing a paper about justice right now and I know that the paper will look differently after considering some of the points that were made in this thread.
Glad to hear it. Good luck with the paper.
I was in the History PhD program at UVa before going to law school. My emphasis was on Jefferson (duh...why I chose UVa). Despite that background, I genuinely learned some things in this thread.
Sorry that you incur such hate for having different opinions. I hope it's worth it to you for the rational responses you received.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:57 pm to 4cubbies
They were proven hypocrites almost immediately after becoming a nation.
That being said- they did create the greatest nation to ever exist
That being said- they did create the greatest nation to ever exist
Posted on 10/14/25 at 12:58 pm to Madking
quote:Female and liberal, that's why.
Why are you so dishonest?
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:00 pm to Hayekian serf
quote:In fairness, they didn't say all men and women are created equal. So there is that.
They were proven hypocrites almost immediately after becoming a nation.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:00 pm to 4cubbies
Jokes on you. Four black women actually wrote the Constitution.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:02 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
The revolutionary claim that “all men are created equal” coexisted with the enslavement of millions,
LOL...dude...I think you have some research ahead of you.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:02 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:02 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
Why are you so dishonest?
Female and liberal, that's why.
"Educated" white females are a hive mind and think they are here to save brown people.
Dishonesty is in their DNA
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:02 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:Agojie warriors no doubt.
Four black women actually wrote the Constitution.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:06 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Well, as I said, our founding document, the constitution, was not based on belief. It was a governing document, and a compromise. I'd offer that the founders probably believed strongly in the positions that they held, which drove those compromises. But without the compromises, there may well have been no lasting democracy independent of British rule.
Good point.
quote:
if that's what you meant to write, I'd agree with your conjecture, with reservation. However, I believe you miswrote that.
I did, but you don't actually think justice is applied fairly in this country either.
quote:
"Fairness and Equality" especially in terms of immutable characteristics would have to be a major element. Attempts at egality would not be.
"fairness" and "equality" are open for interpretation, too, though.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:07 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Jokes on you. Four black women actually wrote the Constitution.
Yeah I saw Netflix is making a documentary about this and it is coming out in February of 2026.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:08 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
“all men are created equal”
At that time slaves were not considered as part of mankind... your thread is dumb
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:09 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Systems can only improve if they are analyzed and evaluated critically.
Yea!! Like healthcare was! And the concept of cashless bail!! Defunding police for the sake of equality!! Making retail theft of a certain amount basically impossible!! Expanding the welfare state to encourage fatherless homes with multiple children from many different fathers!!! Expansion of socialism that is getting popular in these “””””””””educated””””””””” liberal areas!!!
The systems are “evaluated and analyzed” partially by partisan morons that will block any common sense initiatives and throw out buzzwords to explain why.
Posted on 10/14/25 at 1:10 pm to 4cubbies
What should they have said?
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