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re: Was the press wrong for publishing The Pentagon Papers?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 7:24 am to ned nederlander
Posted on 10/16/26 at 7:24 am to ned nederlander
quote:
No. Nearly everything our government does should be made public. Unredacted. You want privacy in your deliberations stay in the private sector.
State and local government especially that have no military technology or espionage activity should have zero redactions in any records.
THIS X 1,000. The whole Vietnam tragedy was based on a false premise. The governance of a foreign country is not of national concern to the United States.
Vietnam was unified under communist rule. That had ZERO effect on the United States. International trade is conducted under capitalism.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 7:32 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
So you had publication of propaganda designed to shade truths
Propaganda?
The NYTimes literally photocopied and printed actual documents produced by the DoD and the CIA and the White House.
I mean it was the actual internal communications of the decision makers.
How can you call that Propaganda with a straight face?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 7:39 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Had Ho Chi Minh been heading the NYT, he could not have spun the story better.
Tigah, do you think it was a good idea for us to meddle in Vietnam's domestic affairs?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 7:52 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:Not sure I ever read them but did they expose LBJ's wife's family and its ties to the Bell Helicopter? Lots of people and companies made lots money at the cost of thousands and thousands of young men's lives. Plus, those that survived didn't have normal lives when they got back home. Many, many people in power should have been in jail for that war. I had a school deferment and my lottery number was pretty high but my brother volunteered. I don't know of any true PTSD like symptoms with him but I could never get him to talk about it.
No. They performed a great national service.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:08 am to Diamondawg
quote:
Many, many people in power should have been in jail for that war.
I don't remember the Pentagon Papers highlighting Bell and LBJ, but I completely agree with your statement.
Same should be said about the people who have lied us into many needless wars/military conflicts over the years. It should have started (at least) with William Randolph Hearst's lies about the Spanish blowing up the USS Maine in Havana.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:14 am to VOR
the pentagon papers release contrasted with trumps epstein release a month after he took office. pam bondi brought in a bunch of conservative influencers , who were given thick binders of info that had already been released. the PP was real news release. the trump epstein release was fake news done for show.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:16 am to VOR
I think if we could see all the internal analysis on any military action, we'd see a range of opinions, accusations, scenarios, etc.. People's imaginations would run wild with conspiracy. Thats what we do. Look at the Ukraine thing with Biden and firing the prosecutor over the loan stuff. Imagine if we knew the whole story there.
That being said, if a journalist legally secures intel that meets the editorial and ethical standards of the outlet, he has a responsibility to publish. I would hope those editorial standards would be to redact information that could put lives in danger.
If the media actually does its job rather than shill propaganda, I'm fine with them exposing everything
That being said, if a journalist legally secures intel that meets the editorial and ethical standards of the outlet, he has a responsibility to publish. I would hope those editorial standards would be to redact information that could put lives in danger.
If the media actually does its job rather than shill propaganda, I'm fine with them exposing everything
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:30 am to VOR
quote:
You do know that Nixon expanded the war into Cambodia and bombed the North with the “Christmas Bombing”, right?
Was Nixon “the left”?
You must be at least 80 years old, dude.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:33 am to theballguy
quote:
Confused MAGA bros evaporated
TDS is very real. You’re consumed with “MAGA bros” in a thread about the Vietnam war. It’s bizarre.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:50 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:That's a complicated question. It depends on the extent of "meddling" and justification of it in light of concomitant communist meddling. If you're asking whether the Gulf of Tonkin, US response, and an escalation to full US involvement was a "good idea," the answer is a resounding "No!"
Tigah, do you think it was a good idea for us to meddle in Vietnam's domestic affairs?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:51 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:Most say they had no financial interest in Bell. Most of Lady Bird's fortune came from tv and radio stations. However, it's probably not that hard for a President as crooked as LBJ was to shell some interests in Bell Helicopter that made the famous Huey.
I don't remember the Pentagon Papers highlighting Bell and LBJ, but I completely agree with your statement
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:52 am to No Colors
quote:Is it that you didn't read my post, or is it that you did not understand what you read?
How can you call that Propaganda with a straight face?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 8:58 am to VOR
quote:Nixon was a very smart, albeit paranoid man. I think he was actually trying to find an exit strategy without complete humiliation to the US govt. Too late. LBJ had already screwed the pooch on that one. I think JFK did everything possible to stay out of it. But it had been going on since the 50s, if I'm not mistaken.
Was Nixon “the left”?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 9:03 am to NC_Tigah
I read that long blowhard rambling off topic post.
And then I mocked it because it was ridiculous.
Is there anything about my post you don't understand?
And then I mocked it because it was ridiculous.
Is there anything about my post you don't understand?
Posted on 10/16/26 at 9:43 am to No Colors
quote:So you didn't understand it.
off topic post.
I'll simplify it, the Pentagon Papers were NOT factual representations. They were McNamara CYA political propaganda.
E.g., The Gulf of Tonkin incident in the PPs was largely attributed to LBJ acting on his own, shooting from the hip. In reality, McNamara withheld critical info from LBJ, and took measures behind the scenes to manipulate events into a catalyst for war.
The NYT published McNamara's CYA as fact.
The fact you perceive that as a "blowhard, off topic post" is itself ridiculous.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 9:44 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
That's a complicated question.
Thanks for a thoughtful response.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 10:46 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
If this happened now, MAGA world would say it's fake news, traitorous, and a threat to national security.
Traitorous? No. Fake News. Yes we would. The media has lied so much they're no longer believable.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 11:22 am to BBONDS25
no Nixon was not the "left"
Posted on 10/16/26 at 11:34 am to theballguy
quote:Lot's of emojis.
Nixon was not the "left"
Are you intimating Nixon's policy was simply an extension of LBJ's?
Nixon was looking for a negotiated settlement to end the war from the point of his election onward.
Posted on 10/16/26 at 11:52 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
No. They performed a great national service.
THIS!!
Prior to the 1980 election the US NEWS media (before FAKE NEWS media) the press was considered the "4th Estate" and lost money in the news divisions to report facts the public had a right to know.
Regan got elected and did away with the "Fairness Doctrine" so his pal, and HUGE donor, could benefit with his media empire at the time.
Rupert + Denver Billionaire + Roger Allies (The FOX trio) came along took it to the next level on steroids. Somewhere in print, if you can find it, Rupert said he was not in the news business, but in the entertainment business. From that point forward mainstream media devolved more and more to tabloid media, where money and market share took from seat to facts.
Out went the homely reporters, to be replaced with the attractive talking heads we see today. Look good on TV, but sh*t for brains.
3 movies where reality has now replaced the fiction
A Face in the Crowd
Network
Broadcast News
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