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re: Was the Civil War Fought Because of Slavery? It Depends on Which Side You View
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:07 pm to tigger1
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:07 pm to tigger1
quote:
No promotions by ability it was by like Lee knowing the person, by 1862 you have many bad commanders in the southern western Army like Bragg. Lee was running of good candidates before 1863 and you get the battle of Gettysburg with the worst Crops commander (ok it is a close race with Ewell) Hill and worst divisional commander letting the attack that morning.
Losing Stonewall Jackson before Gettysburg was a huge blow to Lee and the Confederate Army.
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Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:08 pm to Larry_Hotdogs
quote:
States rights
That is the one thing that the southern states proved beyond a shadow of a doubt it was NOT about.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:12 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Yep. And in the Confederate constitution, they made sure to include a provision that permanently legalized slavery, protecting it from any future legislative action. Just a coincidence I am sure.
Slavery was already protected by the US constitution. All the South did was be explicit by it.
Like Calhoun said years before secession, why doesn't the New England introduce a law to make slavery illegal? We had unconstitutional banks, unconstitutional tariffs, why not just make slavery illegal?
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:14 pm to Cuz413
quote:
Or not pay overburdening protective tariffs.
... but mostly because they wanted slaves.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:24 pm to tigger1
quote:
the south fired on Fort Sumter.
Before those shots were fired, Lincoln had already approved orders for 5 war expeditions to sail for the South
Welles-Fox headed to Charleston
Rowan headed to Charleston
Adam's ships to Santa Rosa Island
Brown's expedition headed to Pensacola
Port's expedition headed to Pensacola
These 5 expeditions were already in route to the South when Lincoln met with Virginia peace commission (Col John Baldwin) on April 4th who was to try and coerce Lincoln to let the South go in peace. However Lincoln already had given the order for warships to go South knowing this would lead to war.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:25 pm to Boss13
quote:
Or not pay overburdening protective tariffs.
... but mostly because they wanted slaves.
Slavery was already protected
Not even close. Do you even Tariff of Abominations and nullification?
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:31 pm to RFK
quote:In other words, Lincoln insisted he might abide the Constitution under certain conditions.
Lincoln stated repeatedly that he would accept slavery remaining where it existed if it meant avoiding secession and war.
The Confederacy seceded to protect slavery as an institution which is odd considering we have been taught to accept Lincoln's claimed concession to follow the law as prima facie in that regard.
The reality is slavery was horrible. It was the major element of a broad series of states' rights increasingly infringed by the more populous North. Lincoln sought war as a means to end slavery. In early 1861, he absolutely had the opportunity to preserve Virginia within the Union. He shirked it, thinking the South would be an easy mark regardless, though he didn't really care. In Lincoln's reasoning, the means justified the end regardless.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:34 pm to RFK
quote:
Was the Civil War Fought Because of Slavery?
quote:
The Confederacy seceded explicitly to protect slavery as an institution (see the various statement of causes).
You answered your own question. It doesnt matter what the Union leaders thought since the Southern states took the first swing, seceded, and fired on a Union garrison...
It was 100% to defend slavery because Lincoln was proposing to limit it to where it already was established and the South saw that as a dilution of their power and representation down the road.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:59 pm to El Eh Shu
Excellent explanation. Shelby Foote used the example of when a Confederate soldier was asked why he was fighting his response “ because you are down here”. The same ideas that caused the Revolution caused the second America revolution.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 5:59 pm to Cuz413
quote:
Slavery was already protected
Not even close. Do you even Tariff of Abominations and nullification?
quote:
The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.
-Alexander H. Stephens, vice president of the confederacy
You gonna argue with the vice president? How about Mississippi's declaration of succession?
quote:
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world... a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union.
The war would not have happened without slavery. Dont be nieve, be proud our ancestors shed blood to do away with the system.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:12 pm to Boss13
quote:
You gonna argue with the vice president? How about Mississippi's declaration of succession?
You can see my earlier posts in this thread. Slavery was definitely a part of secession.
The rise of radical Republicans, abolitionists that did not believe in compensated manumissions, but especially protectionary tariffs were the driving force to secede.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:19 pm to Boss13
quote:
Dont be nieve, be proud our ancestors shed blood to do away with the system.
It’s not naivety. It is about Root Cause Analysis. It is simply lazy and emotional nonsense to say that ending slavery because of “superior morality” was the cause of the North.
The truth is that in hindsight both sides were wrong.
At the time, the North was only selectively abiding by the Constitution of the United States of America (evidenced by Lincoln’s many quotes about not explicitly being morally against slavery). The Constitutionally outlined standard operating procedure of States’ Rights that we still value heavily today was under attack and being selectively ignored to harm Southern business, morality aside.
The South seceded to protect their economic standing from those threatening it, making use of slavery as the case-in-point regarding the unconstitutional infringement upon States’ Rights by the North.
The ramblings of Southern leaders about the “proper status of the negro” in society at the time were just as emotionally unhinged as the Northern leaders’ willingness to selectively ignore an entire clause of the U.S. Constitution just to hold power over their competitors’ heads.
Slavery was the accelerant, not the source, of the flaming scourge that was the American Civil War.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:21 pm to RFK
quote:
The Confederacy seceded explicitly to protect slavery as an institution
Well that's simply not true
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:27 pm to Barstools
quote:Oh do tell more
Well that's simply not true
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:29 pm to DByrd2
quote:
Now answer why slavery was such a big deal that it would cause the notion of secession…
For the South it was most certainly monetary. However, you are deluding yourself if you don't think there was morality involved in the argument with the other side. The Radical Republicans, a small but VERY vocal minority, argued against slavery on moral and religious grounds. There were certainly many people all over the country who thought the institution of slavery was a great moral evil. However, most did not know how to confront it due to the fact that it was so interwoven into the Southern economy by the middle of the 19th century.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:33 pm to RFK
Who cares what the war was about? The end result permanently settled a question in a manner that would have almost every Founding Father rolling in his grave. The Union they created is permanent and irrevocable, even if a state leaves through representative or democratic means. No state legislature would have ratified the Constitution had it been deemed to be both permanent and irrevocable at the time it was submitted for ratification.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
What was the primary conflict driving secession? Slavery.
You keep saying this but its flat out wrong. I know youre retarded but repeating the same shite over and over doesnt make it true.
This post was edited on 5/4/26 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:40 pm to RFK
The first "Emancipation Proclamation". did no free the slaves.
It warned, If the states did not come back into the Union, then he, Lincoln, would declare all their slaves free.
That indicates slavery was not the principal issue.
It warned, If the states did not come back into the Union, then he, Lincoln, would declare all their slaves free.
That indicates slavery was not the principal issue.
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:50 pm to Barstools
quote:
You keep saying this but its flat out wrong. I know youre retarded but repeating the same shite over and over doesnt make it true.
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornerstone-speech
Alexander H. Stephens (Confederate Vice President), March 21, 1861:
quote:
The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically.
He continues
quote:
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
John S. Mosby (Confederate Colonel), 1907 Letter
quote:
People must be judged by the standard of their own age. If it was right to own slaves as property it was right to fight for it. The South went to war on account of Slavery. South Carolina went to war – as she said in her Secession proclamation – because slavery wd. not be secure under Lincoln. South Carolina ought to know what was the cause for her seceding. . . . I am not ashamed of having fought on the side of slavery – a soldier fights for his country – right or wrong – he is not responsible for the political merits of the cause he fights in. The South was my country.
Mississippi Ordinance of Secession adopted January 9, 1861
quote:
“Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery – the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
There is a lot of evidence that the people who led the secession saw slavery and the protection of it as a prime motivator.
This post was edited on 5/4/26 at 7:00 pm
Posted on 5/4/26 at 6:54 pm to RFK
Every year or two when this subject is introduced in a new thread, I, and others here, are astounded and amazed, but never surprised, at the lack of historical knowledge and facts concerning the Uncivil War.
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