re: United Methodist Church special session this week

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Foo
Does this look accurate?
Calvinist believe Jesus died for only the predestined and that God predestined some for hell?

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It depends on what you mean by "died for", but if you're talking about the efficacy of an atoning sacrifice for sin, then yes, He only died for the elect (predestined to salvation).

Some believe that Jesus died in some sense for everyone, whereby even God's common grace (good things that happen for the reprobate, like the rain falling, good health and wellness, and even material blessings) is only possible due to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. I'm not sure if all Calvinists would hold to that, but when we say that Christ died for only the elect, we mean in terms of the intent for salvation from sin.

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Pretty cut and dry- but doesn't this negate evangelical aspects?

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Not at all. In fact I believe it helps bolster evangelism.

Calvinists believe that the scriptures teach that a person is regenerated ("born again") by the Holy Spirit and such a person is then made able to recognize the truth for what it is and desirous to trust in it as such. Calvinists believe that the means God has chosen to use as the mechanism for the Holy Spirit to work is the preaching of the word (Gospel as found in the scriptures). Since no one but God knows who these "elect" persons are, Calvinists (and all Christians) should be preaching the Gospel to anyone and everyone.

Since Calvinists believe that the power of conversion is the Holy Spirit's work, not our own, we can be fully confident that there is nothing we can do to interfere with the Spirit's work in salvation. We preach the Gospel with our weak and feeble mouths and voices trusting that God will accomplish the work and that His elect will hear the truth and respond. It actually takes a lot of pressure off of us because we don't have to try to think up elaborate methods of reaching the lost; we just have to be faithful to preaching the word of God as found in the scriptures and God will do all of the work.

So in that regard, Calvinists actually believe that instead of negating evangelism, it makes evangelism completely necessary since it is the means God uses to draw His elect to Himself. I'll leave this quote from J. Vernon McGee regarding comments made by Charles Spurgeon, the famous English, (reformed) Baptist minister:

“Now God knows who the elect are. I don’t. Someone came to Spurgeon one time and said, “Mr Spurgeon, if I believed as you do, I would not preach like you do. You say you believe that there are the elect, and yet you preach as if everybody can be saved.” Spurgeon’s answer was, “They can all be saved. If God had put a yellow streak up and down the backs of the elect, I’d go up and down the streets lifting up shirt tails to find out who had the yellow streak up and down his back. Then I’d give that person the gospel. But God didn’t do that. He told me to preach the gospel to every creature and that whosoever will may come.” That is our marching order, and as far as I am concerned, until God gives me the roll call of the elect, I am going to preach the “whosoever will” gospel. That is the gospel we are to preach today.”

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Lutherans believe Jesus died for all. God predestined some for heaven but not for hell. It's our fault if we go to hell and it's Jesus credit if we go to heaven but God wants all to be saved. Essentially a paradox for our thinking.

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Whether one believes that God actually predestines someone to go to Hell or not is immaterial if it's true that God predestines some to Heaven, because the end result is the same: everyone deserves to die in their sins and go to Hell and if God selects some to save, He necessarily wills that everyone else shall not be saved.

Regardless of what a person believes about that distinction, what I believe is clear from the scriptures is that the Father gave Jesus a flock of sheep who are His people and whom Christ shall not lose (John 10:28-29). Those people are called the "elect" or "chosen" whom God elected from the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4-5). There are the elect and the reprobate, who were created to not share in God's electing, saving love, as Paul points out in Romans chapter 9. God loves all people with a general love as being made in His image but He has a special love for the Church invisible, which are the elect of God, whom He gave to Christ as a reward for His sacrifice.

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Thanks. I enjoy your contributions

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Thank you for being willing to engage in discussion. I know full-well that what I believe is not popular any longer. It used to be the predominant understanding of the scriptures, from the early church and then again during the Reformation, but it has fallen out of favor among Christians these days. It's such an offensive doctrine for many people that I've heard some rather foul language and insults hurled my way for daring to mention it before. I'm always happy to discuss what I believe and why and attempt to give a defense of it. So thank you for asking in a civil way.

I don't think they voted yet?

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Ok ok, enough on Calvinism vs. Ariminianism. What happened this week with the St Louis UMC special conference? Any poison pills added to the traditionalist option?

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Vote is probably Tuesday morning. Yesterday was a day of prayer led by different factions (jurisdictions) within the Church. I happened to tune into the live stream for a few minutes yesterday and a bunch of folks were waving those rainbow flags. No one was talking so I don't know what it was about, who they were nor where they were from. The message was pretty clear, though.

Anyone know of any folks at the session who are tweeting about the ongoings?

They struck down one of the compromise plans.

The African wing won’t go along with ordaining queers.

Schism incoming.

I have been attending a fUMC in my town for 6 years.

I was once a youth director at my hometown’s fUMC.

Only this week have I reized that the UMC is a SJW queer denomination.

The traditional was struck down.

The One Church Plan is what will be accepted. In theory, it lets churches run their own show...but in reality it puts churches under the control of a likely-leftist bishop.

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The One Church Plan is what will be accepted. In theory, it lets churches run their own show...but in reality it puts churches under the control of a likely-leftist bishop.

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Like the bishop from North Alabama who appears to be all about incorporating them

Also, is it possible that none of the plans are adopted and the status quo remains?

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Also, is it possible that none of the plans are adopted and the status quo remains?

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No